My new Rega RP6 - Pros & Cons

Different combinations offer different results, and some seem to really hit a sweet spot or complimentary contribution, with those combinations, both TTs and girl friends. Wine can explode with complex personality in pairing with the right foods and be almost magical, paired poorly, they can be complete dudes. That was my whole point. Does the wine or TT become somehow different in and of itself when paired differently? No of course not. (I realize a human beings involvement in a group or in a one on one is interactive, and a turntable or wine is not.) I don't think that aspect waters down my point of importance toward combinations and synergistic aspects.

I think we can also safely agree on, I won't pick your girl friends or TTs for what I hear in their interactions and ability to play nice in combination with others, and you won't be picking mine.

 

I wouldn´t be too sure about that.

 

It ain't that deep; either a machine does it's intended job well or it doesn't

Don't need a digression into a "Gestalt" dissertation to know that Audio gear sounds better on some days than others

All of it and any of it

And to all people

 

Well maybe that was not the best sounding arm. Maybe there were other influences on reviewers? Insert your own way for a manufacturer to influence reviews and websites for that matter (hint hint). According to HW and now MW's mantra it seems like EVERYTHING new from them is the greatest ever!

You can take a middle of the road table and put a great cartridge on it. Then take that same cart and compare it to the top of the line. There will be differences but in 99% of the time it's not worth the dollar difference the manufacturer wants.

Put a XX-2 on a RP6 and a RP8. I bet both are going to sound damm good.

 

The interesting here was that it was downloadable files of high quality, and what files belonged to what arm was unknown. It was the verdict from the audiophiles voting on which arm they thought was the best. It clearly showed to me how deeply rooted we are with a sound we are used to, also the differences even if clearly audible in a test like this are not cut and dry.

As for the XX-2 on the TTs, I´m very confident in that some will like the RP6 better, some will like RP8 better, and if doing the same procedure as Fremer did with the arms, it´s not mandatory at all that the RP8 will have the most votes.

 

Hey! Great news! The Norwegian Rega mechanic checked my table and as we anticipated I am getting a new motor . I am so so happy now. Strange that a resolve like this can make me feel so happy. Have allready been over at ebay and snatched some more records. Do not bid on stuff I am bidding on! Have a nice friday!

 

Interesting to hear such a range of opinions about the RP6. I've had one for the past six months and I have a bit of a love/hate relationship with it. Mine is currently outfitted with an Ortofon 2M Black, Groovetracer sub-platter and Groovetracer under-slung counterweight. When it sounds good, it sound phenomenal. When it doesn't, I want to catapult it into the sun. Here are some of the issues I've had with it:

1) The stock sub-platter I received had significant wobble. The dealer quickly sent for a replacement and the issue was solved.

2) When the platter is perfectly level, the plinth is not. The dealer insists this isn't a major issue, noting that minor warps in records can cause more significant stylus deflection, but I remain skeptical. How is the stylus supposed to meet the groove correctly if they're on different planes?

3) Since day one, I've had issues with distortion on full, loudly cut passages in music. It ranges from almost completely inaudible to really extremely distracting, depending on the record. It also tracks only the first Hi Fi News Test LP bias track unless VTF is cranked way beyond the recommended range (and I don't feel comfortable doing so). This doesn't seem right to me.

I thought the problem might be an imperfect cartridge (Ortofon 2M Black), so I sent the table and cart back to the dealer. They replaced the cart, citing a diamond mount that was improperly recessed into the cantilever. The distortion issue was reduced just a tiny bit, but not entirely. I sent it back a second time and the dealer replaced the arm, citing a possible anti-skate mechanism issue. Again, the distortion was slightly reduced, but did not go away. I'm at my wit's end and on the verge of selling the whole setup.

I hear reports of RP6s working flawlessly out of the box and reports of RP6s with issues ranging from minor quirks to fatal flaws. I want to enjoy mine, but it's honestly never worked how I expect it to. I know it isn't uber-pricey, bleeding edge quality audiophile equipment by any means, but I've frittered away too many frustrated hours leveling, realigning, tweaking, etc. to no avail after having sunk more than $2500 into a TT+cartridge combo.

P.S. If anyone has any suggestions on how to eliminate the distortion issue, please feel free to suggest away. I would very much appreciate them.

 

sounds like a VTA / SRA issue. blacks are sensitive to this. do you have adjustable tonearm spacers installed?

 

Have you tried playing those distorted records on a different 'table?

I have some records that play with distortion on my RP6, but I think it just comes down to the record itself. As a technology, phonographs are perfect, but that's why we like them.

 

I too can only track the first bias track, track 6. RP6/2M bronze
I dont worry about the other two, not real world levels, I give em the middle finger.
Dont worry about trying to track 7 or 8 for bias, its a fools errand.

 

Another issue may be the cartridge suspension isn't fully broken in. My 2M Bronze improved greatly after about 30-35 hours of use. The Ortofon rep told me that it may take up to 100 hours to fully break in, and they don't recommend trying to fine tune SRA too much until then.

 

Thanks very much for the responses!

@avanti1960 - I do have the adjustable Rega three-point spacer installed under the arm and it's set to the 4mm level. I've tried the Black at 2mm as well, but found it dampened the pronounced holographic effect I hear and enjoy at 4mm.

@ramblin - I don't have access to any other turntables so I haven't had the chance to test problem records elsewhere, but it's something I've often thought about. I'm fully of the belief that records can be pressed loudly and/or with imperfections and that sometimes distortion is present in specific recording regardless of format, but when VTF and antiskate adjustments can minimize or alter the distortion (if not fix it) and I can't hear the distortion in a different format it makes me think that some aspect of my setup might very well be the problem.

@tim185 - I would like to believe that the other tracks don't matter, but the buzzing distortion I hear on track 7 seems very much to me to be the buzzing distortion I hear on very loud passages of certain records. This leads me to believe that there are real world scenarios, albeit rare, in which better tracking can lead to less distortion (and record damage) in actual music. What I find particularly frustrating is hearing from RP6 owners, some with the exact same cartridge, that report tracking all of the Hi Fi News torture tracks perfectly. Assuming they aren't lying, what's the difference between their setup and mine? I'd very much like to know. There are those who say that the bias tracks are meaningless and there are those that won't drop a stylus on a record for fear of damaging it unless their cartridge passes the first three bias tracks. Who's to say who's right? Maybe it would be false confidence, but if my TT+cart combo could track the first three, I'd be more inclined to believe my stylus wasn't buzzing around, destroying record grooves on the odd record with audible distortion.

@snorker - The cart probably has ~150 hours on it right now, so I'm guessing it's about as broken in as it's going to get, but it has been a very cold winter and we keep the house cool, so maybe when the weather becomes warmer and more humid the suspension will loosen up and I'll see some tracking improvements.

 

I hear your pain Kilgoretraut.
If I heard distortion, I would be worried about passing the other tracks too I guess, but I dont hence I decided not to worry about them. And others smarter than me have recommended likewise. I am using a 2mm spacer myself, your comments are interesting regarding the 4 mm spacer. I think I have another spacer thats 1mm, I could add that and try it out. However, loosening off the tone arm I hate doing, and once was enough. I think

 

I have and in an all Rega system both with 2m Blacks
And the improvement was about the same maybe a touch more than the RP6 was over the RP3. The point of deminshing returns the more you spend on HiFi gear has pretty much been a truism in the hobby for decades. You're the first that I've really heard argue against it. What doesn't change is the sonic signature of pieces and personal preference. Besides, while the RP8 is neat, you'd have to be nuts to buy a 3 grand Rega IMHO. At that price you look at Michell and VPI and a host of other brands. The VPI Classic is a more notable improvement over the RP6 than the RP8 is and that's coming from someone that likes the Rega house sound.

 

These rega demos you did, where the arms spaced higher, compensated for the different cartridge height?
I hear horrible sounding tables all the time because it appears people don't know how to set them up,
the rp8 can be sensitive to what it sits on. I heard an rp8 totally smoke a rp6, but my dealer knows how to
get the most performance through set up.

I can't argue with you on diminishing returns because there is no reference points. How much money do
you have? How much is it important to you? What is diminishing to you? All I know is you spend more,
it gets better. That's why I dropped $25,000 at my Naim dealer instead of $5,000. It's not diminishing
returns for me, it's exponentially better. Now when I hear the lower end systems, they sound broken
because you become very aware what's missing.

 

What do your friends think of your $25k system?

 

They laugh at it, because they have better gear.
It's a mystery to me how someone would think there is diminishing returns
passed a turntable as modest in performance as an rp6. You're not even
in the game yet. And I mean that with all the best intentions and awareness
that money doesn't grow on trees. It's just the sad reality that expensive stuff
is way better. If I was limited to an rp6, I'd dump all my records and just
listen to CDs on a good player, and skip all the hassle of vinyl. An rp6 can't
match a decent digital system, that may be a bitter pill, but I think it's true.
I'd need a much better sounding table capable of reproducing more detail
than what I've heard an rp6 can perform.

 

@Kilgore- try raising another 2mm.

 

Seems there is a lot of smoking when trying in comparing TTs.

 

And I understand and respect your position. Maybe I have some records that have unavoidable distortion, but until I rule that out, I'm going to look for a solution. This is a relatively new hobby to me and I very much appreciate advice from those with more experience and knowledge.

The arm is already fairly tail-up as it is, but it's an interesting idea and one of the few things I haven't tried.

 

Both had 4mm spacers. As for diminishing returns I'd use the Denon DP300f as a reference. The RP6 blows it away. The RP8, to me, is not as big an improvement.

Where did you come across a pair of Royd Abbott's? I remember hearing a couple different pairs of Royd Audio speakers in the 90s at a Linn Dealer in L.A. really liked the stand mounters I heard demoed with a used Nait 2.

 

I must be lucky. My RP3 works perfectly. Can even clean a spinning LP with no slowing of the platter. Totally love it with the Exact cartridge

 

I thought the RP3 was a great sounding table. The only reason I ended up with the RP6 is I wanted the TTPSU because my house was built in 1978 and doesn't have the cleanest power

 

After many years of suffering through an intermittent problem on my p5 that neither I nor anyone could seem to fix and which finally caused me to throw in the towel on that table I ordered a RP6. My P5 was a lemon form the start so I figure what's the chance of lightening striking twice, I really hope I don't regret it. Otherwise I am going to have to start bitching a whole lot in the vinyl is a PITA threads.

 

But just like the $425 dollar model from 1999, your $4,250 MSRP CeeDee player is probably worn out as well, 16 years on (assuming you "dropped" new) and of course you use it regularly
I am assuming you do (see below*)
Did you go for the optional $4,000 dollar "XPS" as well?
You can buy a better machine today for less than $500
Naim digital is about as "colored" as it gets, and always was (my impression)
That old "250" 'bout due for a re-cap as well by now
None of it lasts forever, no matter what you "dropped"

*Curious though: why'd you "stop" at an "RP-3"?
(see, this is why I don't post, all in one spot, my equipment "profile")