My New Tube Integrated- Way Under the Radar (Raven Audio Nighthawk) *

Thanks Dave love the hands on responses, I feel your passion and it's why I bought a nighthawk mk2

 

John, I have a pair of Zu Omen Dirty Weekends on order, which should arrive in May. I will be happy to give you some feedback on those before the next run this Fall.

 

Your speakers should read approximately what they are rated at.... as in 4 ohms... they should match.

 

Great Eric that would be awesome,

 

Raven news: Questions & Answers: Music Takes Flight with Raven Audio Sound Systems

 

Thanks Jeff!

 

Ha, ha! From this interview by our host:

S.H.: I’ve been yakking about this stuff since the 80s, and this is the best one ever! Here’s the deal: it happened one day, in 1992. And I remember the day – I was working on this jazz album, and I had my giant solid state amplifier and my JBL monitors, and what happened was, my fellow engineer, Kevin Gray, had a small pair of McIntosh vacuum tube amplifiers that he had purchased at UCLA Hearing Center. When they went solid state, they put them in a pile and sold them off for a hundred bucks. And I had seen photographs of the old vacuum tube amps, so I was very curious.

So he loaned me his, and I was playing this one song over and over again on my big solid state amp, and then decided, “let me just hook in these little small amps; they couldn’t possibly sound any better.” So I hooked them right in, left everything else the same, and Oh My God! The musicians! They were right there in the room with me! Nothing else had changed. Just these little old amps with the vacuum tubes in them. And they resurrected the dead! I was so shocked. I just couldn’t believe it. I had these giant amps, and then all of a sudden I had these teeny amps that I could hold one in each of my hands, and it slayed the sound of anything else I’d ever heard. I was shocked. So I asked him, “What’s the magic?” And he said, “vacuum tubes.”

 

Just came across this post. How did the Zu omens pair up?

 

I have a 45 watt solid state amp I feel is under powering my 92db speakers (mid bass and bass specifically), how can a 20 watt amp be more powerful than a 150 watt? I take it a watt isn’t a watt when comparing solid state and tube?

 

Its mostly its about analog being a MUCH more efficient amplification style over solid state/digital. Tube analog powered amplifiers grab the drivers in a speaker and don't let go... ever. While solid state is a series of tiny pushes and pulls, requiring more power to muscle the speaker drivers to the same volume as in a tube amp. They simply use more power up doing the same job. This is also why a solid state amplifier can blow a speaker driver MUCH easier than any tube amp. Since it pushes and pulls while letting go, losing control of the drivers for microseconds in each direction... this allows the drivers to sometimes over-travel and cause damage. It's almost impossible for a tube amp to allow a well-designed speaker driver to over-travel and damage it.

The tube amp keeps holding onto the driver and doesn't allow it to be pushed too far... it holds the driver and immediately starts pulling it in the opposite direction, preventing the driver from being "shot" too far in either direction. An over-simplification of the true engineering involved, maybe. But when I was told about it using this method, I fully understood and could see it in my mind.

It is also why really powerful tube amps (not like the little 20 watt integrated we are talking about, but the same family of sonics) sound like they are highly "dampened" and hard core deep clean punchy in the lower and mid-bass regions, and warm yet clean in the mids, yet without being too sterile and perfect in the upper registers. They just sound more "human" and "real" than a lot of solid state and digital amps out there... especially the older ones.

Bottom line, the "style" of amplification is just completely different - and MUCH more efficient, using less power to get the same results. Digital and solid state have come a long way lately. They are all saying they sound more like tube amps.... right?! Well, why not just get a tube amp~!!! Yeah, they can be fickle sometimes. Some tubes are better than others, for sure. But when you get a solid state or digital amp.... and that's what you get. You are done and stuck with it.

With a tube amp, you are not ever "stuck" because each set of tubes can bring a little different feel to the musical delivery, a bit of a different flare and flavor can be brought out. And this allows you to tweak and tailor your amp a bit allowing you to make your amp sound great no matter what problems your room and speakers may give you. Just keep trying until you get the right combination. And thankfully that can be an almost endless amount of fun at the same time~!

This is just about as layman as I can explain it. And I have heard several designers explain all of this in slightly different ways, but all were similar in their quest to describe it. I am sure people like Bascomb King, Kevin Hays, and Kevin Deal can all tell you about this quality in tube amps. Some of the best of them can make 20 watts per channel act as if they are equal to 200 watts per channel solid state, and 500 watts per channel digital.

 

Oh..... and a 45 watt per channel solid state amp is going to act like a 3 to 5 watt per channel push-pull tube amp. The Raven Audio Nighthawk MK2 will sound almost 5 to 7 times more powerful than that 45 wpc solid state amp. Most people are running their 20 wpc Nighthawks, Blackhawks and 30 wpc Ospreys at 8 to 11 o'clock on their volume dials with 88db to 95db speakers - and if you stuck a 150-200 watt per channel McIntosh solid state stereo amp into its place.... you would still be almost the same place in ITS dial. Its about efficiency of the amplification... not the power.

A better description of this anomaly is with Steve Huff's description of when he put his new 20 watt per channel Blackhawk LE into the same system that his 300 watt per channel McIntosh amplifiers are normally in. The little Blackhawk LE won the battle between it and that big McIntosh quite handily. A perfect explanation of "how" is sometimes not the best way to decide. Reading about the battle can be a better way to decide which way to go when choosing amplification styles. Plus, we will ALWAYS give you your money back if it doesn't work for you. I want all of our customers to have a great experience with their Raven Audio amplifiers.

 

Thanks! That does make sense to me. So can I
Ask if fast paced music presents more challenges to
Tube amplification? Hardcore punk, speed metal, thrash, etc?

 

I listen to punk, and some metal and the like myself occasionally if I am in the mood. Maybe not quite as far as "speed metal" or "thrash" but similar in punch and delivery.

A really great tube amplifier is ALWAYS going to delineate and separate those tiny little idiosyncrasies between notes and instruments better than most other types of amplification will. It will make you believe the musical performance, feel it, be into it.

HOWEVER~!!! AND THIS IS A BIG ONE. Old tube amps were NEVER able to handle this kind of music before. This is not only because of the difference in today's highly efficient transformers, but more about the newer capacitors.

RavenCaps are among the fastest audio caps in the world now. Any amplifier with really great new style TKO, PRP, Takman, Caddock resistors coupled with these new polypropylene Teflon and silver plated copper foil capacitors is going to be lightning fast compared to any of the other amps. The thing that makes it different is the holographic way the music is delivered pushing the musicians out into the room between the speakers instead of a flat slightly meshed together mixed up musical sound stage. There will be huge air around the individual instruments and vocalists, and the drums will be punchy and the kick and bass will work together to slam you in the chest with authority. It's an experience you will never get with any other amp style. It will be more human and emotional.

Ask how many Raven owners cannot turn their amps off at the end of the night. Ask how it is almost like being addicted to the "feeling" you get from the music instead of just listening to it. It draws you in and makes you have an emotional tie to the musical performance like no other amplifier ever can. Ask the actual owners... they will tell you all about it. I cannot explain exactly why this happens.... but you can get up and turn any other amplifiers off when you have to go to bed at night, work pending a few hours from now....

But with that darn Raven Audio amp.... it draws you in like some sort of addicting drug. Maybe just one more shot before I go.... or maybe two.... or maybe.... hell.... is it already 1am~!!!!!!!!!

Just make sure that new female vocalist in the background that you never noticed before - isn't your wife telling you to turn the darn music off and go to bed, you gotta work tomorrow~!!! LOL

 

Awesome. I can’t wait to for the day I get to buy a Nighthawk! Thanks again!

 

I'll be here. Just remember, you can always send it right back if you aren't 100% in love with the amp. Sometimes I get trade-ins too... just not too often.

 

What a beauty, I whished I could afford one of those. Maybe in another life...

 

I was looking at the nighthawk as well, but the mk2 is a bit out of my price range.

 

I never had a chance to try the Zu's with a Raven.
I ended up going an entirely different direction, and bought a Devialet Expert Pro amp instead. The results are wonderful, but not germain in this thread.

 

First post. Been reading this thread with great interest. I'm thinking about getting into tubes and have narrowed my search down to 3 manufacturers, one of which is Raven Audio. Does someone have any experience with both the Blackhawk and Osprey models? Is there a huge difference in sound warranting the difference in price? Thanks in advance!

 

Glad to see you took the plunge into the forum, you'll find a lot of info from knowledgable members here. First, I can't offer you the answer to your question regarding the sonic difference between the Blackhawk vs the Osprey even though I own a Blackhawk because when I home auditioned the unit I didn't have access to the Osprey at the time to A - B them together. What you really should consider before any choices made are what are your wattage requirements, listening levels you like to hear your music, room size, etc. Depending on the sensitivity of your current speakers you may already have to out the Blackhawk (@20 watts/ch) if they are 82db or your room is 20' X 30' and like listening levels at 80 db, so for other members to chime in here, let use know what your speakers requirements are, etc . I would also guess that the sonic signature from one model amp to a higher wattage amp from the same manufacturer would depend a lot of what brand of tubes are installed in them. There are some links on the Raven Audio website from other reviewers, like Steve Hoffman that compare the model like mine against some other manufacturers you should check out.

 

Thank you for the response bucketsrb! My system is as follows:

Merlin TSM Black Magic Edition
Sunfire True Sub Mk2 (and oldie but still runs well)
MSB Analog Dac
Macbook Air streaming Tidal through Audirvana
Spectral SDR-3000SL running into the MSB

Room is small, about 11 X 12. I listen to jazz ( mostly trio's and female vocals) and some classic rock. I do a lot of late night listening when I get home from work so nothing too loud but I like to crank it up every once in a while!

 

The Merlin's, any of them, are all [pretty great with the Osprey, and I think they are even wonderful with the Nighthawk MK2. They run a little bit light on the bass end but your sub should cover that problem without a hitch. The additional 50% more power of the Osprey is going to give your system a LOT more headroom, even though we are only talking about 10 additional watts. The Blackhawk is a little bit sweeter, with a bit more air around the instruments and vocals, and finally a bit more delineation throughout than the Nighthawk, but of course it will absolutely depend on so many other things as well, especially your room.

There are customers out there that have said the Nighthawk MK2 is "more musical sounding" than the Blackhawk LE, so it is about the synergy within the system - and the way it is set up in the room it lives in - that will ultimately count in the end.

Bottom line, the Osprey is like a Blackhawk LE on steroids. There is just MORE of everything that the Blackhawk LE does best. They are both nicely refined very modern sounding tube amps... that are just much faster than most of the other tube amps out there right now. The 87db efficiency of the Merlin should be just fine with the Osprey... but it will need that sub, with its somewhat lean on the lower end 55Hz-20KHz range. With the right speakers the Osprey will easily kick solidly down to 20Hz, so it would be a shame to miss that much of the performance abilit y that these amplifiers actually can award the user that owns the right system and speakers.

Of course tubes make a big difference too, but I will always work with you on that - as many of my customers will tell you. Currently though, I know of no current customers that have either a Blackhawk LE or Osprey teamed up with the Merlin TSM... anyone?

But as always, you can simply return the amp if you do not LOVE it.

 

Thanks for responding Dave! I may have to be the first Merlin owner to try your amps =)

By the way, I read something about the Eagle and Golden Eagle last year. Any news on those amps? Can't find any info on your website. Thanks!