My New Tube Integrated- Way Under the Radar (Raven Audio Nighthawk) *

Congrats! You were in the right place at the right time!

I had read that audiogon posting and the seller was really tube swapping like crazy. I recommend you try to get the tubes as close to the stock NOS as possible because the voicing is the magic of this amp, especially the power tubes.

My amp's (6) small signal tubes were hand picked by the factory (Dave) to yield a certain sound.
He recommends:
RCA 5963 in the back row
GE 12A7 in the middle row- and
Sylvania 12AT7 in the front row.
Regardless, he has said once my amp breaks in if I have any issues with the sound he will recommend different tubes in the various positions until the sound is the way I want it. Pretty cool! You will be able to do the same thing if needed.
Enjoy!

 

In my Blackhawk, the RCA/12AT7 are in the front row, the GE/12AT7 in the middle row, and the 12AU7/Philips in the back row.
I was going by the stage names on the Blackhawk product page description.

• 2 x 12AT7 - Preamplifier stage
• 2 x 12AT7 - Power amplifier first stage
• 2 x 12AU7 - Phase inverter/driver

 

See diagram / picture here.

Same as in the Nighthawk manual. (Blackhawk manual not available on Raven Audio website.)

 

that's it, thanks. those RCA 12AT7 / 6201s are sweet tubes. i'm still blown away that these amps are voiced and shipped with NOS tubes!

 

12AU7 - gain of 20

12AT7 - gain of 60

12AX7 - gain of 100

The difference between 12AU7 and 12AT7 (and 12AX7) is just the amount of gain, pinouts are the same. The only negative affect that would come from getting them mixed up would be either a weak sound from putting a 12AU7 in place where a 12AT7 is required, or a distorted sound from putting a 12AT7 where a 12AU7 is required.

 

First of all I want to thank everyone for the nice comments I have read here about our products. Then I think I need to answer a few questions.

We used to ship all of our amplifiers with "Winged C" 6L6GC and 6550C power tubes. And even though they stopped making them a few years back we had quads of them in stock up until mid-summer this year. But I knew we were getting low so I started experimenting with all of the others out there. And after a lot of experimenting I figured out that I had to swap many completely different NOS preamp and driver tube brand combinations/variations with those tubes to make them work as well as with the Winged C, and eventually the Svetlanas.

Now we are completely out of the "Winged C" unfortunately. So we have no choice but to go another direction. The few Winged C's that are available are now $250-300 per quad, which is unreasonable. That is the price being shipped from Russia! And believe me that method of acquisition is not going to be a business model for Raven. I was find getting them through CR Distribution. But Russia.... um, no.

We tried all the New Sensor re-brands: TungSol - made in Russia (which are fairly good, but come in terribly thin boxes and had a lot of irregular inner construction and envelope deviation), Mullard - made in Russia (another cheap shipping box, and a LOT of different inner construction deviation and deformation of the glass envelope), Electro Harmonix - Russian made (terrible sounding!) JJ (Ugh!) and several other variations I won't mention that I really didn't like.

I also tried Tube Amp Doctor - made in China which sounded fairly good, have great construction and the guys that handle these have great matching techniques, but the Chinese manufacturing thing is something I just could not settle myself down with in the end. So I shipped a few amps with them in them, and they really do sound great. I kept a quad for myself and they are still going strong. I like them. But Raven Audio is just NOT going to ship amplifiers Chinese tubes in them!

We went through the same exact re-brands with the 6550's too, and even tried the KT150's from New Sensor - which sound fabulous on our Elite Series amps but for some reason I am still reading a lot of irregular reports about - so we have decided to make them a special order only.

We finally have landed on Svetlana due primarily to the constant sonics throughout the last few different batches we received, but also a bit because of the better quality shipping boxes, better envelope construction throughout AND better sound!

Now I am going to say something I thought I would never in a million years find myself saying - the latest three batches of Svetlana 6L6GC power tubes have sounded better in my opinion than my 50's and 60's era RCA blackplates - I have kept at least (1) quad from each era for a long time now. They also outshine my GE's, and here goes........ ALSO my beloved Silvertones - which were made by RCA and re-branded - in the early 60's.

I tried them in all three of our newest Avian Series integrated amps, the Nighthawk MK2, Blackhawk LE, and the Osprey - and they are cleaner overall, thicker and fuller with more presence in the midrange, which I like, and they have a much cleaner, punchier and more delineated bass response - and have such a beautifully clean, airy, almost addicting high end to them too.

I am so sad that I almost cannot listen to any of the 4 Old Stock Quads anymore at all without noticing that I am missing a little something~! And believe me, I didn't want this to happen. Those Silvertones have served me for many years, and forever I have been certain that they were my "End Game" tube choice. They are the "Holy Grail" tubes that everyone talks about too! But after about 40 hours of break-in time the Svetlana's beat them every time on all music I threw at them. I was always so worried about putting too many hours on them too... now I am OK with it.

Now for another shocker of a statement - I personally CANNOT tell the difference between the latest two crates (we get them 100-150 tubes at a time) which contained three different batch numbers in them - and the Winged C's that I keep buried in my private personal stash. And neither can anyone else I invite to try and hear a difference.

I also cannot tell the difference between any of the quads themselves, nor can I hear any differences between batches. These are just really great 6L6GC power tubes, and they must have a great quality control over there now because they have all been just great for a long time now. I haven't had a single bad tube in over a year now. So I will stand behind my decision to finally end up shipping them with all of our Avian Series amplifiers.

I have not made a clean decision on the 6550's yet, but it looks as if the same thing is happening with them too. I haven't yet really been able to tell the difference between the older batches of "Winged C" 6550C's - and the current Svetlanas - so far. Now.... what I want to know is.... is anyone else having the same results - or even a completely different opinion about what I am hearing with these power tubes?

Because I am starting to wonder about my hearing.... and why the Russians have suddenly (since the Crimea/Ukrainian thing) started getting so much better at doing everything!

And has anyone else noticed how many people are selling their old stock RCA and GE 6L6GC and 6L6 power tubes lately... it seems like Ebay is filled with pairs and quads lately. They have even gone way down in price from time to time. I remember about 18 months ago when I thought my Silvertones were certainly worth no less than $600 as a perfectly matched quad. Now.... who knows~!

I may never sell my favorite ones, but I may just go ahead and sell a few of my stashed ones now... now that I am sure I don't have to worry about ever being without them anymore. They just sound so darn sluggish compared to the new Svetlanas.... and certainly cannot compare in the ultra-low bass registers and that great crystal high-end clarity...

Now the mid range.... well THAT is really pretty unbeatable. But these days when we can have it all, why wouldn't we choose to? Oh, and yes, the older Svetlanas did thoroughly suck in comparison to these.

Cheers!
Dave Thomson
Raven Audio

 

Wow, very cool that you came in here to talk about the product. Would you be willing to provide a "layman's terms" overview of the difference between the Nighthawk and the Blackhawk (with which I am enamored)?

 

I love the Blackhawk too. Such a sweet sounding amplifier. Although I really like the Nighthawk and find it slightly more natural sounding, I'm not eliminating the possibility of upgrading to the Blackhawk Ltd before my dealer "grace period" ends.

 

I should clarify - I am enamored, but loving from a distance for now...

 

This is fascinating!!!!
So what differences did you hear between the GE's and the Svetlana's specifically if you don't mind me asking?
I always have hoped that there would be a current made tube to rival the awesomeness of the old GE (my fave) but haven't found any. I thought the 6L6G Tung-Sol reissues were nice way back but a recent set had envelope and construction differences enough to wave a flag.
Thank you for your analysis so far!

 

Wow, this is going to be fun, but probably not quick! It won't be much good to just tell you about the parts without some of the history... SO... here goes:

I don't know that I can do a layman's version of explaning about the upgrades in wiring and solder, but I will say simply that the Nighthawk MK2 has excellent parts throughout - and the Blackhawk LE has better parts that cost us much more. There are quite a lot of South Korean, Japanese, German, Danish, French and US made parts throughout both amps.
The Alps motorized Blue Velvet volume in the Nighthawk is a Black Velvet in the Blackhawk. The South Korean and Japanese resistors in the Nighthawk are Tokyo Ko-on, PRP, Takman, Caddock, and antique NOS Allen Bradley in the Blackhawk. Finally, the speaker output on the Nighthawk MK2 are German made sourced through MBL and the Blackhawk are CNC which are top grade Japanese and quite expensive.

The PC boards are heavy red military grade, which we had been having made in Seoul, South Korea so SE could keep a close watch on things while he was there most of the year. But in 2016 we will bring the manufacturing to California and Texas. The largest upgrade is the fabulous RavenCap audio capacitors, which are the same ones found in our top-of-the-line Elite Series products.

For a higher grade product we thought we should give a on the Blackhawk Limited Edition integrated amplifiers are 5 times as expensive to do. They all started out Mercedes colors and have been slightly changed using both pearl and metallic components blended in to make what are now called "Pearl Metallic Pinot Noir" and "Mercedes Metallic Pearl Black 475" at the paint shop. We shorten them simply calling them "Pinot Noir" and "Pearl Black" for public use.

When we finally decided (and could actually afford) to add to our lineup, we decided to simply upgrade the Nighthawk first instead of doing a complete new product. We had actually "Hot Rodded" a few Nighthawks already - creating special order Nighthawk Special Editions in the past, and so we knew what would work to some extent. And in doing this eventually we hoped we could offer a new product but still stay affordable working off the same platform and with the same chassis. So when we could the goal was to keep the price down well below $4K.

At first the highly specialized Nighthawk "Limited Edition" was produced in a small batch. But eventually to further delineate it from the new Nighthawk "MK2" we decided to paint it black and call it the "Blackhawk" to give it sort of a "bad-ass" look and name. It was an instant hit. One night at the paint shop we saw this custom painted deep wine red Mercedes..... so we had the guy blend in a little more pearl and metallic base to the paint and to paint a couple of the Blackhawks with it... THAT also was a hit. We sold them immediately!

The best thing we ever did with this project was to never worry about the price of obtaining any of the parts for this amp, we just went for it. And as a result, it really sounds fantastic. You get what you pay for.... literally!

Heck we never even had time to put them on the website for the first 6 months. They were only on the Facebook page and we told some Nighthawk MK2 shoppers about the Blackhawk LE during the sales process, sent them pictures, and as a result of the sales we realized how great the potential was for this as a permanent product.

After that it was a simple thought process to keep going - and for 2016 we will offer the Osprey, which is a 30wpc version of the Blackhawk LE. Then next there will be the "Eagle" which will be a 50/70wpc version using 6550 power tubes. Keeping all of these Avian Series integrated amplifiers in the same style of folded-steel chassis will keep them all well under $6,000. We expect to offer the Eagle for $5,295 before eventually bringing it up to where it needs to be to put them into stores - just like we did on the Nighthawk MK2 and the Blackhawk LE.

Whew!
Dave

 

Hello Paul,

As far as MY ears go...... and there is a LOT that can be said about that... the GE 6L6 (like the RCA but to a slightly less degree) is just a bit slower and more "mid-range sweet" with a slight bloat compared to the Svetlana and Winged C's. The new tubes seem to be cleaner without being overextending any particular portion of the frequency. They seem to have a kind of flat, clean, powerful response across the board - where the older tubes seem to offer kind of a midrange-pushed amplification.

To be certain, the amps and speakers back in those days (especially the old paper cone conventional style speakers) were just unable to go as deep and clean in the bass registers, and certainly not as accurately and cleanl, as the better modern day speakers are now. The new materials we have now have available to us can really do a much better job of reproducing music now in my opinion due to the lightweight and stiffness of composites.

Of course there were a few exceptions, but still none were able to claim a full 20Hz through 20kHz range of reproduction ability... (unless I am hugely mistaken).

Without getting too complicated, in our amplifiers (which can absolutely reproduce 20Hz through 20kHz) the newer power tubes seem to be able to reproduce a good clean signal all across the spectrum by comparison. Swap in an older quad of RCA or GE (which tend to have an ever so slight rough edge to them also) and immediately you will notice that there is something missing in the bass and delicate high end - that the Svetlana, Winged C's, and for that matter even the new TungSols, and Mullards can do better.

I also forgot to mention that I have a quad of old Philips/Amperex 6L6GC's (still in their original yellow boxes) that thoroughly trounce most of the old American made 6L6 tubes by quite a bit, especially on jazz and rock. But they also tend to eventually lose their footing trying to play complicated intense classical pieces. The Svetlana and Winged C are MUCH more able to handle the complicated musical pieces - at least in our products.

I must clarify that these notes I am sharing - are per MY hearing only - and there is no possible way that everyone will hear exactly the same things that I hear. Everyone has different ears, and for instance you can vastly change your own hearing by cupping your hands behind your ears to create a larger gathering space. So the variables are quite endless.

In the end this is all a quite risky thing to answer this type of question. People that really LOVE their old tubes are probably going to protest. I actually did at first because I didn't really want to hear my beloved tubes failing against those new Russian made ones... but in the end its about accuracy and ability, and I finally gave in.

And since you did ask.... I am doing my best to answer. Others may very well (no doubt!) "hear" it differently!

Now............

Notice that on all of our preamplifier and driver tubes - we still don't install many new model tubes... at least not yet anyway. I prefer the old stock tubes, and so I try my best to give this experience to my customers. But even with thousands of tubes in stock presently, eventually we will run out. Thankfully though.... I have learned to have a more open mind these days. So I do keep listening.

Though I have still not heard a better 12AT7, 12AU7, 6922 or just about any other 9 pin tube that we use in our designs - that can beat the "very best" old stock USA and European tubes. And to my knowledge nobody can still touch the best of the best Amperex, Telefunken, or Seimens 6922/ECC88 (or the many other versions of this tube).

But something is finally happening.... and it is again happening over in Russia.

(By the way, I probably should point out that all of these re-branded vacuum tubes we are commenting on are New Sensor, USA tubes anyway - so I need for everyone to know this just in case you don't)

to continue...
This year (2015) for the first time I was pleasantly surprised when after reading several stories and forum comments, I obtained several new pairs of the new Gold Lion branded versions of 12AT7 & 12AU7.

They are finally getting very very good.

So indeed it may not be too long now... and I think they may be 90% there already. Even three years ago they were nowhere close to this good.

In my humble opinion that is....

RavenDave

 

I knew there was an automotive theme to the colors! That's why I called them "bitch'n amps" after that custom car show "bitch'n rides"

 

I owe everyone an apology:

In my late-night Nighthawk MK2 / Blackhawk LE comparison - and in my "6L6 power tube description" posts shown above, there are several disjointed and poorly composed sentences, especially where I was trying to describe the paint.

I will make sure to post earlier in the day from now on. The corrected explanation should say:

For the higher grade product we thought the new Blackhawk LE should have a higher grade of paint. The paint a on the Blackhawk LE is about 5 times as expensive as on the original Nighthawk. The two colors started out as Mercedes colors and have been slightly altered having more pearl and metallic components blended in to make what are now called "Pearl Metallic Pinot Noir" and "Mercedes Metallic Pearl Black 475" at the paint shop. We shorten them for our website description and Facebook discussions by simply calling them "Pinot Noir" and "Pearl Black".

It was very late, and I was trying to hang on before going to sleep, so I thought I would just be able to come back this morning fresh and clean my posts up. But I have now learned the hard way that they become closed to editing fairly soon after posting. I should have read more thoroughly...

I promise that from now on I will try to do a better job of proof-reading my posts. Sorry!

 

Thanks for posting. What's your take on the KT120s?

 

In my opinion the KT120 is a quite capable power tube - especially in the right amplifier design. They will plug-and-play into all of our Elite Series amplifiers, and sound quite good in the process, however their full (power) ability can only be realized when the plate and grid voltages are supplied up to the tube's specific design points. They can also provide a lot more power when the amplifier is operation to accommodate this specific tube.

For instance: the 6550 can provide 35 Watts of plate dissipation, the KT88 provides 42W, the KT90 - 50W, KT120 can give 60W, and finally at the current top of the list is the KT150, which at spec. can yield 70Watts of plate dissapation.

For comparison purposes, you can check out these spec. sheets. Notice the different operating and maximum voltage requirements/limits

6550 Specification Sheet: https://d1sjrnpi226dnf.cloudfront.net/spree/attached_files/6550-tung-sol.pdf?1400170489
KT88 Specification Sheet: https://d1sjrnpi226dnf.cloudfront.net/spree/attached_files/kt88eh.pdf?1400186967
KT90 Specification Sheet: https://d1sjrnpi226dnf.cloudfront.net/spree/attached_files/kt90eh.pdf?1400187354
KT120 Specification Sheet: https://d1sjrnpi226dnf.cloudfront.net/spree/attached_files/ts-kt120.pdf?1382029860
KT150 Specification Sheet: https://d1sjrnpi226dnf.cloudfront.net/spree/attached_files/ts-kt150.pdf?1390421029

The KT150 is another great design - currently the most powerful of this family of tubes. It is designed to operate at higher plate and grid voltages, and can provide a LOT more output power if the amplifier is designed to provide these proper voltage requirements.

But the KT150 also still sounds quite fabulous plugged into the current (6550/KT88 spec.) amplifiers in our Elite Series product lineup. As a result they sound like a "slightly cleaner" old stock/old Coke bottle style Tung Sol 6550... which is quite the compliment.

In my opinion NOTHING beats the old Tung Sol 6550. But this is highly personal~! Mark Pearson of Positive Feedback much prefers the KT150 over the TS 6550 that I love so much.
_________________________________
When an amplifier is designed and built to specifically provide the voltages that meet the minimum specifications of a specific power tube, they can sound quite different from an amplifier designed to accommodate a completely different tube, for instance a KT88 or 6550, or to a lesser degree the KT90, KT100, etc. (which per my opinion are both quite terrible sounding tubes by comparison - in home audio amps - can be good in some guitar amps tho!).

Overall, these newer generation tubes can provide a much higher output power when the amplifier is providing the proper plate and grid voltages required by the individual power tube's designed specs.

Since you asked my opinion, here it is.

Each different tube design seems to have it's own characteristic sound, and it is not necessarily a "better" sound in every respect - just different. They can achieve a different "flavor" so to speak especially by changing the different driver/phase inverter/driver tubes.

When you plug a KT88 into an amplifier designed to provide the higher voltages specified for the KT150 for instance, the lifetime of the tubes will be shortened... sometimes by less than half. And they also will get very hot and start to suffer in the sonics department, when operating at higher voltages than their design specifies. But I have to admit, they look kind of cool glowing all bright and hot ~!!!~ But I can always hear that the trailing and leading edges of the musical notes starts to develop this uneven edge, a "fuzziness". The smoothness goes away and a distinct distortion starts to get in the way of the musical landscape. And then it happens..... they start to lose that addictive quality that great amplifiers seem to always have, and it becomes much easier to turn them off or leave the room.

As usual it all depends upon so many things. Speakers, cables, source(s), interconnects can all make a difference. Though I like the KT120, I slightly prefer the KT150 over it. And though up to now I have prefered it installed into our products at the 6550 design point... I am always going to be open to a different scenario if one exists!

When the new 2016 Shaman MK2 Monoblocks become available in February - the first two pairs will be coming out designed specifically for the KT150 power tube. This will be a first for us. Usually we design our amps so they will be able to use ALL of the KT88 family safely. But this time we will be building the Shaman to provide over 320 watts per channel - using (8) KT150s in a push-pull configuration.

Since they are point to point hand-wired, and have several adjustable components, the voltages can be easily changed, and this product can use KT120's or KT88's per customer request.

Personally I love the way our amps sound using the Winged C 6550C power tube. Since these great tubes are no longer being manufactured we have had to "change our spots" or "evolve" so to speak. I can say though... the new Shaman MK2 sounds quite fabulous with the KT150's operating at their full potential. Because of your question I now cannot wait to drop an octet of KT120's into them, especially knowing they will be operating at the requirements of a KT150 - that should be quite interesting. And so it continues~! This is why I LOVE tube amps so darn much!!!! The possibilities seem so endless.... and so fun!

 

This is new: Patrick Dillon of HiFiZine just posted the review of the Raven Audio - Blackhawk Limited Edition integrated amplifier.

http://www.hifizine.com/2015/12/raven-audio-blackhawk-limited-edition/

 

After a few days listening-
The system sounds really, really good. Excellent clarity, good dynamics, surprising bass! The sound stage just fills the wall top to bottom, left to right. The main center image is much larger, especially taller. I am much closer to the stage than with my NAD amp/ PSB towers- definitely front row seats. This was not expected and just blows me away.
My old PSBs gave this small window- almost like a porthole- where the vocals / center stage sounds seemed to come from.
With the Raven / KEFs that porthole has expanded to a large picture window. Such improvement, I am truly happy with the sound. I've been auditioning systems since last April- it had better be good!
May possibly add a subwoofer / subwoofers although it has really decent bass- not in a hurry whatsoever. Such a sound that I completely stumbled into. I had never heard of Raven Audio until I stopped into my dealer to try and hear some KEF towers.
What a find!

 

Avanti1960: I love it when speakers disappear with my Blackhawk! I plugged my SW in a few months ago - haven't decided if I like it. I mean, I have the level on it way down anyway. Glad you like your Raven.

(What's your turntable / phono preamp solution btw? I'm on that path next. I just bought an Emotiva XPS-1 for my old/original TT. My Denon 3802AVR had Phono In.)

 

dadonred-
My turntable is a latest gen VPI traveler with herbies mat, Dynavector DV20X2L low MC cartridge and a Pro-Ject Tube Box DS with stock Tungsol tubes. The VPI was finicky to set up but worth it's weight in gold to allow VTA adjustment for dialing in those micro stylus tracking angles. The cartridge sounds detailed, dynamic and silky smooth. The phono preamp sounds awesome and I have tube swapped with lots of options but the stock tubes sound best. The tube stage really gives a dynamic 3D dimensionality to the sound- which sounds even better with the new amp and speakers. Thanks for asking.

 

That amp needs to be in my office!

 

We can certainly arrange that~!

 

Beautiful amps.I saw them at Toska's.If I was looking for a new amp these would be on the short list.

I am interested in the Svetlana's though for my MC30's though.They come in red,green and blue for soft,medium or hard.I wonder what would be right for my application?
Also any way to tell if you're getting them from a new batch.

 

Here's my new home for my Raven Audio Blackhawk (and my new VPI Scout). I had the bench custom built (barn timber beams and steel flared legs - no vibrations so far ) by a custom designer/builder who was great to work with: Montana Angle Worx.

A special shout-out to Taylor at Goldprint Audio (SF member) who sold me the VPI - thanks for all the help Taylor!

Picture 1:
Picture 2:
Picture 3:

The bench weighs between 150-200lbs - it was fun lugging it upstairs by myself!

Happy listening!

 

Beautiful setup you have. I was wondering what brand and model the tall black speakers are and how do they sound with the Raven?