My rant about mistakes made in mixing in stereo

Your idea of what's "right" and my idea of what's "right" are not the same.

Can you really not understand that some people actually love the 50s/60s wide panned stereo - irrespective of where the drums, bass or whatever are positioned, and that it gets soul destroying to come on here and find it being slagged off day in day out?

We are talking about opinions and preferences. I am eternally grateful that the engineers from days of yore did such a lamentably bad job.

 

yes that is something we never had in the UK although it looks like the move was going to happen anyway, and i am sure there would have been a cost saving element moving to just one format too

 

I think you should really look at the skill of the engineer in the first place, not condem them for rushed stereo mixes - which is the problem here, not mistakes. Those guys back then often recorded direct to mono or stereo beautifully - no fixing later, all done live. There seem to be very few engineers who can do the job as well as they did back in the day (Even with hundereds more microphones & massive desks - but perhaps that's the problem). My favourite is a guy called Stuart Eltham who worked at Abbey Road often with George Martin. His live stereo mixes are glorious. The mono mixes you love so much are only that good because the engineers were so great at getting the information to tape in the first place. Once again multiple sources live and having to mix those without always knowing what other sounds would be added.

Personally I love 60's stereo and will usually choose it over mono despite the flaws in the early days. I enjoy the depth and clarity of separate instruments stereo brings rather than it all being crammed together in one channel, but that's a personal preference. I also think it's wrong to say Mono is always best, everything should be judged on it's own merits.

 

Only one bounce on 'Rubber Soul' (for 'Michelle') though. Mono compatability was the real reason.

'Rubber Soul' was actually a very straightforward recording. 'With The Beatles' (done on 2-track) was far more complicated, involving multiple bounces and edit pieces and combinations of overdub tracks etc.

 

Yes he did work for EMI. This is one of his early stereo tests.

 

None of the stereo mixes in the 60s and 70s were "mistakes" and to constantly refer to them as such is wrong. They may not sound as good as mono to some but that's down to preference and taste. And they may not be to everyone's taste but that's art.

I've been doing recording at home for more than 27 years. I started on a four track Tascam Porta-Two and now have a 24 track Zoom R24 and a zillion tracks available in my digital audio workstation. I have always mixed across the soundstage and never in mono. I have no interest in mixing my music to mono. Panning left and right (especially with backing vocals and guitars) adds balance, separation, flavour and texture to a mix. Mixing is an important artistic process and is not just a mechanical one. In the 60s, stereo was new and as with all things new, it wasn't always used in the best way. As much as people on here love their mono, I love my stereo.

 

Emerging technology, easy to criticise in untutored hindsite
I enjoy early attempts at an asymetrical stereo image,it reflects quirky 60s attitudes, but straight to stereo mixes were being done very well in the late 50s by RoyDu Nann and a few others
Abbey Rds Cliff and the Shadows tracks from 59 are excellent stereo,Malcom Addey was the engineer.
Desks and recorders were going through huge changes in these times, the concept of the pan pot took time to emerge, as did managing multitracks and monitoring.
The whole concept was fluid and creative, unlike the uninformed criticisms on this thread

 

Many Beatles 4 track recordings had the entire band (minus vocals) recorded on track one. So if the drums were to be panned in the center it would have made a mono mix with all instruments center. Vocals center. And the odd overdub on tracks 3 and 4 on each side. I don't think such a mix would have been accepted by stereo enthusiasts of the day.

What we wish for now ofcourse is that they'd recorded the bacling track on two tracks in stereo. Drums and bass center, guitars on each side. But that would have left one less track for overdubs and thus there would have been many more reduction mixes. And generation loss as a consequense of that.

 

being a cynic is lazy you are not funny give this guy a break and give a constructive reply

 

Your arguments would be different, if you were there. You would for example know, that mono mixes simply disappeared to reduce production costs. Cause a good stereo mix would automatically fold down to an acceptable mono mix. As the sleeves would tell "Stereo also playable mono".

 

Now when they remix the beatle catalog i really do wish that the backing track will be pulled closer to center. Vocals center and the remaining tracks spread out as much as is tastefull. This won't be a full stereo stage but a good compromise.

 

I also think, it would be nice to have better stereo remixes for today's listening habits. BTW things like that have been done in the vinyl age already. The first album was available in a narrowed mix you describe above.

But - what I haven't found here so far - there is one point, that I used to love about those "vocals left - band right" - mixes. You could use these recordings for karaoke - long before that became a "fashion". I never forget when I found out that I could switch off Ringo in "Yellow Submarine".......;-)

 

How old are you?

 

Over my dead body!

 

In '76, The Ramones sure didn't mind '60s style hard-panned stereo mixing:

 

Whats the problem. They should not replace the original mixes. And it has been for quite a few songs already. All film soundtrack songs have been remixed for the latest dvd versions.

 

My listening habits today are exactly the same as they have always been. Same pair of ears! Why should they change? I am always only too pleased when we get new first time stereo (or surround), but for me the early stereo mixes are sacrosanct. They are what I grew up with.

As it happens, my favourite song by The Beach Boys is Fun, Fun, Fun. I love the 1964 stereo mix. A new stereo mix appeared on the Made in California set, and to my ears it simply doesn't sound like a 1964 song. True, it's fun to have the remix, but to me it will never be the real thing.

 

And I HATE what they did with the surround mix of A Hard Day's Night on the Blu-ray!

And we seem to be well and truly stuck with the remixes of Help! and Rubber Soul...

 

As I recall, when I first got a stereo record player, I damn well wanted to hear the instruments coming out of separate speakers! If I had bought a stereo record that didn't separate the instruments I would have thought I had wasted my money, and quite probably taken the record back.

 

Mono compatibility ? could you elaborate more on that ?

What i find about the two track recording of WTB is that in stereo Money sounds far superior to the rest of the LP ( indeed it feels superior to a lot of Rubber Soul ) as does IWTHYH which i think was done during the same sessions so also probably on two track ?

 

I am not talking about surround. I am talking about stereo.
And the original stereos of RS and H! are available. You are not stuck with the 86 mixes.

 

I Want to Hold Your Hand was done on 4 track and the stereo mix sounds horrible.

 

My habits have changed a bit. I was fascinated as a kid by the seperation. When I later started to make music I learned to enjoy the interaction of the various instruments and the voices. Cause that defines the sound of a band.

 

If there's nothing in the centre of a stereo mix, then the mix retains its proper balance when folded down to mono.

If something is panned centre (usually vocals), that will increase by about 3dB when folded down.

So the stereo 'Rubber Soul' was perfectly compatible when played in mono. But 'Help!' (for example) was not.

 

These youngsters just don't get the evolution of the recording and stereo electronic industry from the 1950's through today 2010's
From stark mono mixes of Chuck Berry,Bo Diddley,Buddy Holley to the 1st stereo pop & rock mixes on a commercial recording late 50's thru the early sixties. And the swinging 60's era of 4 & 8 track recording for early stereo mixes. Again recording engineering really didn't really get understood till the 70's and some engineering was just plain terrible and other engineering mix were exquisite (Tends to be the American recording vs British engineering in rock) The Brits had the edge, Cleaner sound mixes, better separation, better sonics, I used to sell stereo equipment in the 70's and we always used British rock albums (artists) for demos vs most American pop dreck. JMO