My rant about mistakes made in mixing in stereo

I don't believe that was the reason. Why? Because it was abandoned after RS again.

 

I just recently picked a NM UK 2 box stereo Rubber Soul. I will have to try this tonight. How would it compare sound wise to a true Mono mix?

 

Sorry, I should have added that I hear what you're saying about annoying wimpy stereo mixes. I know there are a million examples of that especially the Beatle stuff.

 

You know, if you mute one channel on "California Dreamin'" you can hear Barry McGuire's voice bleed through on "All the leaves are brown..."

 

At least as early as 1958. Possibly earlier (not sure what the REDD.17 had).

In your opinion. Others may, and do, disagree with you.

Personally, yes, there are some mixes where the separation is uncomfortable to me. But there are probably far more where it isn't. It's of the time, and for the most part, I like it. Even the bass in one channel on the Layla album (a 16-track recording).

It didn't *have* to be hard panned. It was a choice. From (on the first two albums) opting to use twin-track instead of 4-track, and opting to use both twin-track and 4-track as collections of mono tracks, as opposed to ways of capturing or creating a true stereo performance. And of course opting to mix the 4-track material in the way it was mixed.

There are 3 stereo mixes. The most common, from 1966, is arguably the worst of the 3.

 

That's an amazing clip. Thanks. I've read about Blumlein for years, and recently used a Blumlein pair at a wedding.

 

many thks

 

but the vocals are centred, do we know why IWTHYH was done on 4 track when WTB was done on 2 track at the same time ??

 

One theory is that they knew the vocals would be re-recorded in German, and that they thought recording to 4-track would make that process easier. Ironic, then, that in fact *twin-track* was chosen at the overdub session in Paris, apparently due to the ability to easily "comp" different takes.

 

Doug, that's a perfect description of why, since 1960, I have nearly always preferred stereo, and especially
the wide stereo mixes by Bill Porter, Owen Bradley and many others....."realism". I have always preferred
to hear music as close as it sounded in the recording studio when it was first performed/recorded. If you
look at session photos from the early sixties, you can see what I'm referring to. Two examples:
Elvis' sessions for "Elvis Is Back" or the singles he recorded during 1960 thru 1963 you can see how the
studio was laid out at Studio B. Elvis center, guitarists Hank Garland etc to his far left, and the Jordanaires
to his far right. That's how Bill Porter recorded it, and that's how it is on record. You are there, live in the studio. Some of the best stereo recordings ever made, and they duplicate the ambiance of the room perfectly. (A great example of this is on "Feel So Bad" where
Boots Randolph's amazing solo starts hard left, but then moves to the center because, as
legend has it, Elvis was so into the solo he grabbed his mike and put it over by Boots, which
then moved the solo front and center. Again, you are there in the room when it all took place).
The Ventures Dolton recordings probably get more to what the OP was referring to, but again, if you were in the studio when the tracks were performed for their mid sixties albums, you have Bob Bogle far left on bass, Don Wilson on rhythm either right or left, Nokie Edwards on lead in the center, and the great
Mel Taylor on drums far right. That's how they sounded in the studio, and that's how it sounds on record.
WIDE stereo separation, bass on one channel, drums on the other.
There are many, many other artists from that era where the engineers duplicated the studio session sound
(Patsy Cline, Brenda Lee, Roy Orbison, The Everly Brothers, etc etc) and it's why the recordings from that era are among my all time favorites to hear ONLY in glorious stereo.

 

And Capitol proved that in 200? when the first batch of Capitol Albums on Cd had the infamous fold-down fiasco with the Rubber Soul mono tracks. People complained, but little did they know that the stereo mix was made as it was in order to allow happy folding-down!

 

With The Beatles was almost completed when the 4 track became available. I Want to Hold Your Hand and This Boy were taped on 17 October 1963, the first 4 track recording they made. They only had one more session for the LP, I Wanna Be Your Man, which was strangely taped on 2 track, on October 23rd. 51 years ago tomorrow.
The vocals of I Want to Hold Your Hand were only centred on the 1966 remix (now the standard version), which neuters the rest of the mix, which has George's guitar far too prominent; the vocals of Money (on With The Beatles) were centred because two separate 2 track mixes were combined. At least that's the best guess.

 

To be clear, 4-track had been available at Abbey Road for 4 years. George Martin simply chose not to use it.

They were also centered on the 1965 remix.

No, it isn't. All evidence points to the stereo mix of Money being a playback of take 7 with a live piano SI by George Martin. It's possible the vocals were mixed center because there was no need for further manipulation.

 

Here's an example of what I was referring to regarding The Ventures in wide stereo. Bass hard
right, Mel Taylor's drums hard left, Nokie's lead front and center, just like it was in the studio, and
you are there.... (from their "Surfing" album from 1963)

 

that is interesting thank you, the IWTHYH remix 3 presumably was for oldies?, were the first two made for Capitol or Odeon use ?

 

It's unclear why the 1963 mix was made, other than the thought that a stereo mix should also be made for future use. It was certainly not used by Capitol.

The 1965 mix was made for Odeon. It appears on "Beatles Greatest" and "The Beatles Beat".

The 1966 mix was in fact made for "Oldies".

 

The third was for Oldies, but Capitol never used a true stereo mix, they created a duophonic version for 'Meet The Beatles' (They eventually released it on Past Masters). The two earlier versions crept out rarely, mainly on Odeon, one being on an Australian single.

 

fantastic i have Beatles greatest ! has the 63 mix not peaked out anywhere then ?

 

It would appear he chose not to use it, likely due to familiarity with the twin-track working method. I believe there were other non-Beatles George Martin productions that used 4-track earlier.

B stereo 21 Oct 1963.
Australia: Parlophone A8103 single reissue 1976.

http://www.columbia.edu/~brennan/beatles/var-1963.html

 

i am on the hunt for the Aussie single ta !!...calling Easy E !!

 

You'll have to get in line for that one - pretty darn scarce - Ill keep a look out for ya!!

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threa...nd-first-stereo-mix-sent-to-australia.347245/

 

its the single that at the time nobody wanted and now nobody can find lol !!

ps didn't hear much difference between the two other mixes, the 66 seems slightly fuller to me but everything else on the headphones seems in the same place, vocals centred, lead guitar hard right...the rest left

 

It has. It was used by mistake on an australian single reissue.

 

Handclaps are a good deal louder in the one oh the stereo mixes that has vocals center.