My Rega RP1 + Ortofon 2M Bronze = Love!

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by GKH, Apr 6, 2012.

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  1. Idler

    Idler Active Member

    Location:
    Sydney Australia
    I have a Rega P2 with Rega arm and a Ortofon 2M Blue cartridge installed without spacers and the arm is level with the LP surface - what am I doing wrong?
     
  2. vinyl anachronist

    vinyl anachronist Senior Member

    Location:
    Lakeside, Oregon
    I was kind of surprised when one Rega dealer said the spacer wasn't necessary and Bill said it absolutely was. But according to Bill, Roy Gandy and I are indeed confused.
     
  3. GoldprintAudio

    GoldprintAudio Forum Resident

    Location:
    Lexington, NC

    I think that I may have mentioned this last time this was question was mentioned..... the spacer's are optional with Ortofon carts, but typically recommended. I have played them successfully both ways. I generally will put the spacers on, due to how close the back of the cart comes to touching the record when playing (especially if you have a few warped albums!).

    If you contact Ortofon and ask them, they will also suggest using spacers.


    So, basically everyone is correct. You can go either way. I say just get the Rega adjustable spacer and you can try it anyway you like! :righton:
     
  4. helter

    helter Forum Resident

    Location:
    NJ
    Just set up my new Rega RP1 with Ortofon Blue 2MB cartridge. It sounds great. Lots of space and easy on the ears. After listening to CD's for the last 25 years, I feel like a teenager again with the vinyl. First album played, the old Apple pressing of Lennon's Imagine followed by Harry Nilsson's Pussycats. Not the best sonic choices but I wanted to hear them.

    Regarding set up, I'm pretty clueless. Pat at Needle Doctor installed the cartridge for me with instructions "red tape on arm marks where your counterweight should be"

    Also purchased a phono preamp Cambridge Audio Azur 551P & Ortofon stylus force gauge

    I was going to call them tomorrow just to review my set up, but I just noticed their closed on weekends.

    Am I okay playing albums at the moment?
     
  5. Renato_CWB

    Renato_CWB Member

    Location:
    Curitiba / Brazil
    Agree... but the conclusion is only valid if we are talking only about reproduction quality issues or diferences. :agree:

    If, on the other hand, you are unlucky to make part of the folks who had the lower back end of the cartridge hitting the record surface occasionaly with thicker records (180gr +) and/or even slightly wobbling records, as I and others have already stated before, the spacer at 2mm is indispensable.
     
  6. Idler

    Idler Active Member

    Location:
    Sydney Australia
    Look I may be missing something here but on my Rega P2 the lower back end of the Ortofon 2M Blue is nowhere near hitting the record - and yes I have tried both badly warped and 200gm discs (I have tried this using both the standard and glass platters and a Rega mat). The only way I could make the cartridge come close to hitting the record is to drastically increase the tracking weight.

    BTW I am using a setup that tries to compromise between the Baerwald and Loefgren alignment methods (the Audio Origami protractor) - this has the cartridge bolts about mid way in the alignment slots on the headshell. This is substantially different from the set up often mentioned in this forum which aligns the front of the cartridge with the front of the arm. Using my method I have zero detectable mistracking across the record.
     
  7. Antares

    Antares Forum Resident

    Location:
    Flanders
    What's all the confusion about?

    1. Rega decks are designed to work with Rega carts.

    2. Rega carts are typically 3 mm lower than other brands.

    Put one and two together and you'll need a 2 - 4 mm spacer to run most non-Rega carts on a Rega deck (depending on your system balance and personal preference).
     
  8. GKH

    GKH Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Somerville, TN
    I'll just add this. The stainless washers I added to my RP1, approximately 2mm in thickness brings the tonearm to level with the playing surface as my photos earlier indicate.
    And, the Bronze is sounding fantastic! I installed it 2 weeks ago.
    Last night, we listened to Porcupine Tree, Chris Isaak, Alan Parsons Project, and The Carpenters. I am very impressed! And, must thank Bill at Uptown Audio for his advice, and recommendations. A couple of months back when we first talked he told me to buy the best cartridge that I could afford. And, he highly recommended the 2M Bronze. At first, I thought,, put a $400 cartridge on a $445 Turntable??!! Well; now, I'm glad I did. :)
     
  9. Renato_CWB

    Renato_CWB Member

    Location:
    Curitiba / Brazil
    Agree with your conclusion on need or not of spacer.

    Coming back to the original intent of your thread, how would you describe the sonic signature of the Bronze?
     
  10. GKH

    GKH Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Somerville, TN
    Right now, I will describe it as a more full sound, overall. The highs are crisper, the mids strong, and the bass tight. Oh! Another album we played last night was 'Candy-O' by The Cars. Wonderful!
    Back in the 70s, I was using Shure V15 Type III, and IVs. I was always happy with them on my Dual TTs, Kenwood Granite, Micro Seiki. At the time, the Shure was about $100+, if I remember correctly.
    I know the Shure is a good cartridge. And, I have no idea how one might sound compared to the Ortofon 2M Bronze. But, I do feel good about the $400 I spent on the Bronze. And, believe me; when I decided to get back into vinyl, and buy a new TT last fall, I sure didn't think I would have this much invested already, if at all. :)
    As far as the RP1 goes, I might add the white belt, and be done. But, who knows. The Groove Tracer products look nice. But, not sure if I will go down that road. Right now, I am very pleased.
     
  11. Renato_CWB

    Renato_CWB Member

    Location:
    Curitiba / Brazil
    Great!! :agree:

    When I upgraded from the original OM-5E to the 2M Blue I chose the Blue for supposingly being the most "open sounding" cartridge of the 2M family. The choice was based on price (of course) but also on the fact that my loudspeakers are "old fashioned" ones ( I LOVE THEM ) with silk dome midrange and tweeter and paper based woofer. Said so, I have been very careful in chosing neutral amplification and the right cables in order to obtain a very musical and lifely result.

    In your opinion (or others who know the Bronze), do you think that the Bronze could produce a sound that risks to be "dark" in above mentioned circumstances?
     
  12. helter

    helter Forum Resident

    Location:
    NJ
    Firstly, I know nothing about turntables
    Someone said buy the most expensive cartridge you can afford.

    If you have a Rega RP1 turntable is there such a thing as the "law of diminishing returns"?

    For example, what if you put an $800 cartridge on a Rega RP1? Is there a point where your not going to get the full benefit of the cartridge because it's on a lower end/budget turntable?

    Just trying to figure out the "most bang for the buck" combinations for turntables/cartridges
     
  13. Bob_in_OKC

    Bob_in_OKC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dallas, Texas
    There is probably a point where you're getting into cartridges that are so good your turntable can't maximize what the cartridge can do, but I certainly don't think it's at a $400 cartridge on a $400 turntable. I have a wood body Benz on a P5. Current list price for the wood Benz is more than the last list price of the P5 was.
     
  14. GKH

    GKH Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Somerville, TN
    Yeah! the thing too, is if you decide to upgrade TTs later, you certainly can move that Bronze, Grado, etc,,, over to your new TT. It's all good! :righton:
     
  15. KT88

    KT88 Senior Member

    That's been my experience as well, even without spacers. Using 2mm of spacing gets the arm just about level with a standard Lp. That also gets the cartridge body even farther from the Lp surface. Since the cartridge asembly rides on the stylus and the cantilever keeps that another 3mm or so below the cartridge body, there is no way that the body could contact the Lp surface unless a record was severely warped or the bearing/subplatter/platter/mat was sitting way too high for some odd reason. That's not a factory condition and would be due to some mod.
    -Bill
     
  16. KT88

    KT88 Senior Member

    I know. I have been posting that same info for years now. It seems there are some of the same old questions still being asked. The confusion comes in when people that really do not know this post their "thoughts" on it. Others then read those and begin to question it as well. The fact remains that all of the tables share the same arm height and it is clearly measurable. Nothing to argue about.
    -Bill
     
  17. KT88

    KT88 Senior Member

    That's a good question and one that I get asked a lot. The advice that you should "buy the best cartridge that you can afford" is sound in any instance. There are a couple of reasons for that. One is that no matter the table, a better cartridge simply sounds better. Just as a better pressing of an Lp or a mastering of a recording sounds better on both top end systems and very inexpensive systems. Better is, well... better. That much should be obvious.

    The second part of the question is where there comes a value judgement. No one but you can decide how much is "too much" to spend on a cartridge. That's why my advice is to "buy the best cartridge that you can afford", rather than "buy the best cartridge that others might be able to afford". There is also the fact that the quality of the table and arm will limit the ultimate performance of any cartridge. So no, you can't get the last ounce of performance out of a $2000 cartridge on a $500 table as you could from a $5000 table. That said, a $2000 cartridge will smoke a $200 cartridge on any table. Hopefully that makes it a bit more clear.
    :cool:
    -Bill
     
  18. KT88

    KT88 Senior Member

    Right. If you buy that P9, the Bronze will sound even better! :winkgrin:

    I have a really old, maybe 20 years or so, Rega Planar 3 at home. That table was perhaps $700 back then. The latest version is only $900 today. I have used more than a few cartridges on it over the years. Right now I have two in rotation. Well, I don't rotate but once every couple of years! I have a Dynavector LOMC type, a Karat cartridge, which is around $1000. That is currently installed on the table. I just put it back on a couple of months ago. Also I have an original Rega Elys (not even an Elys 2), which is a MM type and was about a $200 cartridge way back then, when the table was new. Both cartridges sound very good but have different characteristics. The $1000 cartridge does have better resolution than the $200 cartridge, even on the $700 table.
    -Bill
     
  19. vinyl anachronist

    vinyl anachronist Senior Member

    Location:
    Lakeside, Oregon
    Here's what the confusion is about:

    1. While Rega decks are designed to work with Rega carts, other cartridges have also been designed to work with Rega arms. Considering that Rega has made somewhere in the vicinity of 450,000 RB300 arms (a figure I heard a couple of years ago, so it's probably much more), wouldn't it be smart to design your cartridge around that arm without the use of spacers? There are a few brands that do this.

    2. Many people are getting good results with 4mm spacers, 2mm spacers and no spacer at all. Why is this? Has anyone performed extended listening tests to determine the optimal VTA setting? Has anyone measured all the arms, tables and cartridges to see if there are any variations? Why does the designer of the turntable and arm downplay the importance of VTA while one of his American dealers, someone who is ostensibly an employee of his, disputes this despite the fact that users are happy either way? Why is one Rega dealer saying no to spacers, and another is saying yes? If I had this problem with two of my dealers, I'd be scheduling some additional training for them before they confuse any more potential customers.
     
  20. vinyl anachronist

    vinyl anachronist Senior Member

    Location:
    Lakeside, Oregon
    You are indeed obsessed with price tags.
     
  21. Puma Cat

    Puma Cat Forum Resident

    Location:
    East Bay, CA
    Unfortunately, Transfigurations are not available outside the U.K. independent of a turntable/tonearm purchase.
     
  22. vinyl anachronist

    vinyl anachronist Senior Member

    Location:
    Lakeside, Oregon
    I'm good friends with the US distributor, Bob Clarke of Profundo. I think he might be surprised to know that!
     
  23. StereoFanOregon

    StereoFanOregon Forum Resident

    Back to the initial thread statement. I thoroughly enjoy the the improvement that the Ortofon Super OM40 gives to my RP1 thanks to TonePub.
     
  24. KT88

    KT88 Senior Member

    The only confusion is repeated rumor and rhetoric by the ignorant. I am 100% confident that a 2mm spacer is most appropriate and have consistently repeated this. no confusion here, nor at rega. If a customer uses a Rega cartridge, no spacer. if a customer uses another cartridge, you can pretty well bet that a 2mm spacer will make its height more optimal. Rega designed spacers to be used with their arms. suggesting that they do not find them useful is ridiculous. The only statement by Rega that has anything remotely close to suggesting that a spacer is not required is the indication that changes within a 2mm range offer only slightly different performance. So yeah, the units will work in 90% of the cases with or without, or even with a bit too much spacing, and yeah, they will sound good. that doesn't change the fact that anyone with a ruler can measure the height and determine that a 2mm spacer makes the arms more level with most cartridges, and specifically as relating to this thread, the Ortofon 2m models. Your continued "contributions" on this subject are less than helpful for those who would like a proper answer. You just keep asking questions and the answer have already been given.
    -Bill
     
  25. Puma Cat

    Puma Cat Forum Resident

    Location:
    East Bay, CA
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