My replicated CDs sound awful!

Hello all,

I mastered a CD for a local band (I had a blast doing it). Good stuff which the guitarist recorded at home on a VS-1680 and Pro Tools. It actually sounded like it was recorded and mixed by a competent person.

Anyway, they got the CDs yesterday and I played mine only to hear something I didn't recognize. The top end space was gone, the impact of the kick was missing and the depth of the soundstage had collapsed. I listened to the original CD and it sounded right. I put the duplicated disc back in and it now sounded worse after hearing the original again.

I talked to my favorite local mastering engineer, Hank Williams, and said he had encountered the same things so instead of sending the duplication plant a PMCD he now sends them a 1630 U-Matic tape. I asked why he chose such an old format as his delivery medium and he said they transfer PMCD's at high speed whereas 1630's must be played in real time which results in less jitter problems.

I hate this kind of stuff. I always compare the PMCD to the manufactured disc and more times than not it will sound different. Some of the major label stuff (mastered by Hank) I've done is even plagued by these problems. Just imagine how much better that CD you love actually sounds without all those duplication additives.

Just some things to think about.

 

Condolences.

DOes the replicated version match up in a bit-for-bit comparison with the original?

If you make a CD-R of the replicated disk, does it sound better? WOrse? the same?

 

I will tell everyone else I do work for to make those arrangements. Thanks for the suggestion Steve.

 

I haven't had time to do that yet (I still have three more songs to mix) but was intending to make a copy and listen to it.

Wouldn't it be silly if people that copied the disc got a better sounding version?

 

I found this thread http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18118

I remember reading that years ago and it's always stayed with me. It's actually the reason I compare the originals to the manufactured disc.

 

Yesman,

Sounds like a jitter problem. Roger Nichols recently encountered this and Chesky, Telarc and Classic Records have had problems with replication, or "pressing jitter".

Bob Katz discusses this on his jitter article at www.digido.com

My current project is producing a "jitter audibility test CD". I would be happy to send you a copy. We are going from 200 picoseconds down to around 20-40 picoseconds.

 

I hear jitter effects if I go more than 8x. That's partly why I refuse to burn any faster.

 

Harpo, er I mean Yesman. Dammit, I mean Jamie:

I feel your pain on this. I remember discussing with an audio engineer here in New Zealand how his masters always came back sounding different (worse of course) than his originals.

 

I wonder if this is the case with SACD's and DVD-R's. I'm sure there's problems duplicating them too.

 

"I hear jitter effects if I go more than 8x."

Agreed. I hear them every time I switch off the Lucid external masterclock.

"I wonder if this is the case with SACD's and DVD-R's."

I am not sure about DVDRs, but supposedly (according to Daisy Technology) the Pit Signal Processing on Super Audio discs lowers jitter substantially. I am still learning exactly how this works, however.

 

Lee, will these be available to the general public along with instructions for use? Thx.

 

"Lee, will these be available to the general public along with instructions for use? Thx."

I am glad to have some interest in this disc. As far as I know, we can get the public domain rights to make available to the general public. I expect to offer some 16/44 discs. I am exploring a limited edition on 24/96 but that depends solely on costs.

Dave, I would be happy to send one to you if you supply a mailing address via PM. It will likely be free or very low cost depending on some rights issues.

 

Lee, how does it work?

 

If you mean the jitter test methodology, we record music simultaneously into two level-matched Alessis decks, one of which has an external master clock. We then carefully transfer the results for replication. We will be randomly mixing the tracks so people don't know which has the master clock. It will be interesting to see if people like one track (low jitter) or the other (high jitter).