Nakamichi Dragon CT turntable

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by ggergm, Mar 27, 2013.

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  1. ggergm

    ggergm another spring another baseball season Thread Starter

    Location:
    Minnesota
    Recently a garden variety Dragon CT, if there is such a thing, sold on Ebay for $3,200. That seems to be about the going rate.

    How much is yours worth more than that? Hard to say. I would guess the cartridge would add little value. Used cartridges are used cartridges. I have an extra arm tube. How much value does that add to mine? My guess would be a hundred dollars or so. The basic value is in the turntable.

    The value would be in how well you could sell that "100% working order." With a piece that is thirty years old, whether it be a piece as rare as a Dragon CT or a mass merchandised Pioneer receiver, the ageing of the internal components is a greatest issue. Motors wear. Caps leak. Transistors short out. How convincingly you can present to a buyer that those issues have been addressed would be the question.
     
  2. JBDutch

    JBDutch New Member

    Hi Guys,
    Im looking to buy a Nakamichi TX 1000, would anyone of you know where to buy it and how much it would costs?
    Thanks!
     
  3. ggergm

    ggergm another spring another baseball season Thread Starter

    Location:
    Minnesota
    Good luck. There were very few of TX-1000 platters made. They were essentially all hand built machines. I have no idea of the cost or how well they will be working some thirty years after they were constructed.
     
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  4. kwadguy

    kwadguy Senior Member

    Location:
    Cambridge, MA
    They made between 100 and 200 of the TX. No more than that. They cost around $8000 in the early '80s, about the same price as a new Honda Civic, to give some context. And this was when CDs were starting to come on the scene and turntables were on their way out.

    Getting back to the OP's question: There used to be a user-group on Yahoo groups centered around the Nakamichi turntables. At one time I asked about service and at that time there was supposedly someone in the Northeast--I'm thinking CT or RI--that did board level repairs. But that was a number of years ago now...

    But I'd check out that group and either read the archives or ask the question there...If you get a response of value, please post it here as well...
     
  5. kwadguy

    kwadguy Senior Member

    Location:
    Cambridge, MA
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  6. kwadguy

    kwadguy Senior Member

    Location:
    Cambridge, MA
    OK, found it. This info is from 2012, so take it for what it is. This is in reply to a question about Nakamichi turntable repairs:

    There are only three people I know who can repair a Dragon CT and/or TX-1000. If anyone knows a repairman who has experience repairing Nakamichi turntables and is willing to do it, please post the details and his contact information.

    1. [Or own] Matt Selbee

    Matt can repair other electronic gear (like amplifiers, receivers, cassette tape decks, reel-to-reel tape decks) but he specializes in Nakamichi turntables. He rebuilt several Dragon CT's and TX-1000's and repaired turntables for several members here. In addition to electronics repair (including microprocessors), he could also machine turntable parts, like spindles, spacers, headshells, armboards, acrylic platters, etc. He also works on damaged turntables and does refinishing. You can contact him here or email mattselbee@....

    2. Jeff Galin

    Jeff is the owner of US Service Labs. This company was formerly an authorized service center for all Nakamichi products. As far as I know, Jeff bought all the remaining Nakamichi parts inventory when the Nakamichi parts and service center in Torrance, California was closed. Jeff can repair any Nakamichi piece of gear. The work is of high quality, the prices are expensive and the turnaround long, could be up to a year. The contact information is:

    Jeff Galin
    ELECTRONICS SERVICE LABS
    1807 Berlin Turnpike
    Wethersfield, Connecticut 06109 USA
    By Appointment M-F 9AM to 5PM EST
    VOICE & FAX 860-529-3700
    jeff@...
    jeff@...
    http://www.nakamichi.us

    3. Stephen Sank

    Stephen Sank is a well-known Nakamichi cassette tale deck service expert. I don't know of anyone who had a serious problem repaired by Stephen Sank (like a microprocessor issue) but I know that he does CT modifications like replacing power cords with IEC jacks and upgrading internal wiring. I corresponded with him once and he said that he does repair Dragon CTs. He could sell a replacement glass platter (cut to order) for $200. He is also very busy so turnaround would be long. I know someone who waited 9 months for a simple modification. The contact information is:

    Stephen Sank, Owner
    Talking Dog Transducer Co.
    2112 N. Dragoon St. #13
    Tucson, Arizona [85745]
    505-410-4951
    http://stephensank.com
     
  7. ggergm

    ggergm another spring another baseball season Thread Starter

    Location:
    Minnesota
    Thanks for the info, kwadguy. :righton:

    Needless to say, there have been a couple of changes since the heyday of Yahoo Groups. In calling around to find a servicer for my DragonCT, Jeff Galin from ESL, the most prominent name on your list, was a constant recommendation. Contacting him, he said he didn't repair the turntables anymore but conceded he had parts I might need. He knew, liked and trusted Chris Lewis from Pyramid Audio in Austin, TX, and thought he'd be perfect for fixing my turntable. By then I'd talked to Chris and he was game to take on the job. Jeff also agreed to advise him along the way. I now think I have the best of all worlds. A tech I like will do the repair with advice and parts from the acknowledged expert on the piece.

    This project has gone off the backburner and will get done this month. My DragonCT is finally getting repaired. I'm driving to Austin and then points beyond in less than two weeks. I'll pick up the repaired 'table on my way back home. Maybe by this time next month I will have it up and running. I'll post pictures.
     
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  8. Raylinds

    Raylinds Resident Lake Surfer

    Please report back! Make sure you hit some of the live music clubs on Sixth St.
     
  9. vudicus

    vudicus Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    Just wondering if the deck is up and running yet?
     
  10. ggergm

    ggergm another spring another baseball season Thread Starter

    Location:
    Minnesota
    It was repaired by Pyramid Audio over the summer but is still in the box. I've lately been too busy to give this turntable the attention it deserves. November is a good bet as to when I'll get it up and running.
     
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  11. Raylinds

    Raylinds Resident Lake Surfer

    I'm glad to hear you got it fixed.

    BTW I thought I'd post a picture:

    [​IMG]
     
  12. vudicus

    vudicus Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    Disgraceful behaviour, send it to me at once!!! :uhhuh:
     
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  13. vudicus

    vudicus Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    Does the Nak centering system work on coloured vinyl, picture discs etc?
     
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  14. ggergm

    ggergm another spring another baseball season Thread Starter

    Location:
    Minnesota
    Yes.
     
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  15. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    One more point of commentary, this is a real tour de force of Japanese Audio Art. Pure awesome blend of art and science to solve a major bugaboo of disc reproduction and with high amounts of Japanese Yen, top notch engineering without regard to cost, and lots of build quality to solve that problem of off centered records. I admire this era of high end Japanese audio engineering no end and continue to do so as I age. A showcase of what Japan, Inc once were capable of, an era we will not see the likes of again. Utmost respect and reverence for this classic!
     
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  16. vudicus

    vudicus Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    It's a shame they haven't been re-issued. I think there's definitely a market for them.
    They could easily make these things again for a more reasonable price than they were when they first appeared.
     
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  17. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    I don't see these being cheaper to make today. This is not something today's Japan could manufacture for 3-4x the price. This was complex and expensive to build back then, it would still be priced like a Japanese compact car today. Think upcoming new Technics prices doubled or tripled to get close. This is not something you can build on a small scale easily and tool up for and design and fab the IC microprocessors for. Quality engineering, design, and manufacturing a limited market, state of the art machine like this is prohibitive today.
     
  18. Arnold_Layne

    Arnold_Layne Forum Resident

    Location:
    Waldorf, MD USA
    The centering system has nothing to do with the color or type of vinyl. It physically traces the locked inner groove to detect the amount of offset to compensate for.
     
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  19. MrRom92

    MrRom92 Forum Supermodel

    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    I assume discs with an eccentric lock throw this for a real loop huh
     
  20. Richard Austen

    Richard Austen Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hong Kong
    This is one sexy looking turntable. I hope someone can fix it up and it goes to a good home. This is the SPCA of Audio announcement of the day.
     
  21. ggergm

    ggergm another spring another baseball season Thread Starter

    Location:
    Minnesota
    Yes. They'll error. The sensor arm will go back to its rest position. Fortunately, while I've seen eccentric lead out grooves on some 1950s jazz albums, they are rare.

    Before anyone asks, no, I still haven't set up my Dragon CT since it came back from service with Pyramid Audio. With Christmas decorations out now, it will have to wait until the winter. I can see this as a perfect snow day project.
     
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  22. ggergm

    ggergm another spring another baseball season Thread Starter

    Location:
    Minnesota
    It took over a year but I finally unboxed and set up my Nakamichi Dragon-CT turntable. In a later post I'll go over last year's repair process but let's not bury the lede. Here is a video I recently produced showing the Dragon-CT in operation. You can even hear the difference the Absolute Center Search System makes in auto-centering the record.




    Some beauty shots:

    [​IMG]
    high res version

    [​IMG]
    high res version

    [​IMG]
    high res version

    [​IMG]
    high res version

    [​IMG]
    high res version
     
  23. Bill Hart

    Bill Hart Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin
    G-How cool! I remember those from back in the day, but even then, they weren't all that common. I was going to ask you what you did to bring it back to life, but you promised to provide that separately. The self-centering idea was pretty much limited to that table, no? (I don't remember any others, but perhaps there were). I guess to rectify all vinyl record problems that a turntable could solve, you'd also need vacuum hold-down and my long-time wish list item, a remote controllable VTA/SRA adjustment. (Such things have been and are still being made, but not all on one table). Their early big-dog cassette machine was also pretty much the SOTA at the time (not that I "did" cassettes in any serious way). Looking forward to your updates. How long have you owned it? Since back when you worked in retail? Did you buy it gnu?
     
  24. ggergm

    ggergm another spring another baseball season Thread Starter

    Location:
    Minnesota
    Bill, I'll go through the repair process now. I just didn't want to drag down that other post with too many details.

    Yes, I bought it new from Nakamichi on salesman's accommodation in 1983. It did need fixing under warranty when the platter started to spin at light speed. I ended up sending it into Nakamichi USA in Torrance, CA, three times. They never got the problem to occur in California but finally, in one of the most amazing service phone calls I've ever received, the tech at Nak said I wouldn't keep sending it in if the problem wasn't real and they were going to replace the motor and the drive board under warranty. Many other companies would have sent it back to me No Problem Found, saying to themselves, boy, did we just dodge a major warranty claim. Not Nakamichi.

    The recent servicing cost about $1,100 total and required the good work of two shops. Previously, I had work performed on other gear by Chris Lewis at Pyramid Audio in Austin, Texas. They are great at repairing vintage electronics and reasonably priced. They also once told me a McIntosh receiver I had sent to them wasn't worth fixing. I would have been willing to spend the money but they told me to wise up. Now that's a good service center. Chris said he was willing to attempt a repair on my Dragon-CT. We both understood there were no guarantees he would be successful.

    I had heard that Jeff Galin at Electronic Service Labs in Connecticut was a whiz at fixing the turntable but he had earlier passed on the repair. I assumed I'd need some parts and asked if Jeff could help me with them. He said he could (other people had said Jeff bought all of Nakamichi USA's parts inventory when they closed although Jeff denied this was the case). I asked Jeff to prepare a packet of the commonly needed parts for the Dragon-CT and send them to Chris at Pyramid Audio. Jeff also agreed to consult on the repair as needed. It helped that Jeff and Chris were old friends, liking and respecting each other. It's a small world when it comes to high end electronics repairs.

    Jeff sent four large switches which are buried under the cover (you can hear at least one of them click in the video), an IC, an LED, and a tone arm rest. My tone arm rest was fine but I guess it breaks all the time. Now I have a spare. Chris replaced all the other parts and then tested the turntable for at least a month. As it ended up sitting around here, fixed, for over a year, I was in no hurry. I told him more than once to keep it as long as he wanted.

    The rough breakdown for the repair was $350 for parts and $650 for labor and return shipping. It cost me about $100 to have the turntable shipped FedEx Ground from Minnesota to Texas.

    The turntable has worked flawlessly since then.

    The replaced parts:

    [​IMG]

    For your other questions, yes, the Dragon-CT was basically it for auto-centering turntables. Nakamichi did make a hand built prototype that was a platter and base only. It was actually assembled by Nakamichi where the Dragon-CT was manufactured by Micro-Seiki for Nak. Nobody knows how many of the prototypes were produced but there were a few and are rarer than hen's teeth.

    As for further updates, maybe. I don't know if I will keep the turntable. I've seen them go for mega-bucks on Ebay and I think I could break the bank with this one. It's been recently serviced by the experts, in great shape, and I can prove it works. I have all the accessories, a spare tone arm tube, the original box and packing, and tons of documentation including the service manual, glossy literature, original Nakamichi sales receipt and copies of all of the repair tags. I'd even sell it with the cartridge that's on the 'table now, one of its vintage, a Monster Cable Alpha2, which is a low output moving coil made by Accuphase. The highest I've seen a Dragon-CT go for on Ebay is $4,600. What is mine worth? I think it would be above that, maybe quite a bit north of that price. I don't know what I'll do. For now, it's back in a custom shipping container I made to get it to Austin. I'm leaning toward keeping the turntable but again, I'm not sure. Buy low/sell high, right?

    If anybody wants to send me a PM asking to buy it, don't bother. I won't respond. This is the wrong forum for that. I will make the members a promise. If I do decide to sell it, it will be first offered in the classifieds section here.
     
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  25. Bill Hart

    Bill Hart Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin
    I remember that cartridge, too. It was a "hot" cartridge among the 'in the know' crowd, and is probably still sought after.
    On the table, I would have figured some parts would be unobtainable, but if that thing can be refurbished at a reasonable cost, it is probably worth every dime. I looked it up, there was a bigger one, allegedly had some Micro-Seiki influence (but that was speculation). Never saw the big one-.
    Also good to know there is somebody competent in Austin. Thanks for the back story, G. Enjoy it while you have it. Gotta be fun to reboot an old table you bought so long ago. Did you use it when you first bought it? Or store it away? I knew one guy in retail from the early '70s- he's now a bigwig in the digital world of consumer E-- he bought every Sony audio model that ever existed. And stored it all. Crazy. I wonder if he still has all that stuff. (Remember the bongo drum speakers? I'd rather have your table, thank you).
     
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