Natural & relaxed cartridge?

I love the Red Wine Audio house sound. I would describe it as natural and relaxed. Very easy to listen to. I have the Ortofon 2M Black cartridge now but I can't relax into the sound like I can with my RWA DAC. Any recommendations?

BTW, are there any other audio brands that have a similar house sound to this?

 

Denon Dl-110
AT120E/T

 

Denon DL301-MKII if you have low output moving coil capabilities.

 

MM or MC is fine. 2 votes for Denon, interesting....

 

Wood body Grado Reference Sonata ( similar pricing to 2M Black).

Love the 2M Black for its detail, but the Sonata mid-range is to die for.

 

Grado Reference Sonata1 looks very interesting. I could spend more if the higher end Grado carts don't lose the "natural, relaxed" thing. Worthwhile?

 

No worries. You won't lose any of that mid-range lushness, and in fact you'll gain some added detail as well.

 

This will probably be my next choice of carts. I owned a Black with an 8MZ stylus, and the mids and soundstage were fantastic. The sibilance was the thing I couldn't resolve, which I'm attributing to the lack of internal damping the woodies have.

 

Audio Technica ATS12s Shibata. An old 1970s cart. Nice thing is that you can get cheap spherical styli for it as well, for records that don't need such a lush sound.

 

The 8MZ was the first "real" cartridge I ever bought decades ago. I didn't pick up on any sibilance issues, but then, my system wasn't nearly as resolving as it is now. I've had 2 Platinum's, now the Sonata and will likely get a Master later this year. Our hearing of course is different, but sibilance hasn't been an issue with any of the wood bodies.

 

AT F7 is very relaxed and detailed. Works great in my system. The elliptical is less forgiving with records that have bad play wear than a micro line. That's the only drawback.

 

Im thinking about jumping on board and trying out a wood body grado on my technics sl1200 (KAB upgrades)....seems like a natural progression...

 

The Platinum is very close to the Sonata, so you could save several hundred $$$. I had the Platinum on a vintage Revolver Red (an upgraded model from the Rebel) and also a Nottingham Analogue. The Sonata is on an Oracle Paris.

 

Thanks for your input. Thats probably what Ill buy a platinum

 

With the Grados, how do the Platinum, Sonata, Reference, and Statement relate to each other?

 

That's what I've heard, that's why I'll probably go the Sonata route when my DL-301 is done.

 

Anybody else have sibilance issues with the Grado woods?

 

Are you absolutely certain that the Ortofon 2M Black is properly aligned (on the tonearm/ TT), properly loaded (through the phono amp), and thoroughly broke in? I mean no offense, just trying to assist, yet the idea of a cartridge being used as a "tone control" seems misplaced to my mind...

 

Ortofon Cadenza Red -- Should be just about exactly what you are looking for.

 

It's broken in for sure. It's MM so I can't adjust the loading. I can't say for sure that it's set up properly but I spent a lot of time trying to get it right. Is there any way to test it to know for sure? Are you asking because you think the 2M Black should suit my requirements?

 

I think the Ortofon is a very good cart in many ways. Build quality, information retrieval, tracking, and tonal balance. Pardon me, but in my experience many of the big midrange, smooth carts typically being recommended to satisfy your request also come at a price of often not being as detailed or resolved, not describing the soundstage or the acoustic presence of the recorded venue, and hence, just wind up revealing less of the event itself. One might think that a highly detailed cart will present as "audiophile like" (in the bad sense) and perhaps fall short of expressing the mood and color, the emotion of the music in place of all the micro-detail and micro-dynamic fireworks, but I don't necessarily find that true at all. More information is always better IMHO than less at the source, given the TT set-up is up to snuff. I don't mean to rob you of your personal preference for the music presentation, I just intend to offer caution toward limiting the retrieved data, as some kind of tone control. I think the cart is the place to look for neutrality and precision, and as much data retrieval as is humanly possible and influence the tone further down the sonic path. I don't know that I have a simple, easy answer to get you to where you desire to be (and bye the way, I find your pursuit most legitimate and much to how I would care to have my music sound), yet my point of this is to help you not loose one thing, to get another... To my mind, loudspeakers, speaker cable, and power amps, perhaps even preamps and phonostages to some smaller degree, are the better places to establish tone.

I may be stating the obvious here, but... given you are happy from the digital end through your kit...

If SRA is not spot on with a Shibata stylus, it may present any or all of these ways... harsh, thin, tipped up in focus, confusing and unfocused soundstage and performance wise.

Have you tried adjusting the VTF, and tried running toward the high side of the recommended VTF?

Have you tried a different phonostage? (I realize you have the Pro-Ject onboard phono)

Output voltage at 1000 Hz, 5cm/sec. 5 mV
Channel balance at 1 kHz 1 dB
Channel separation at 1 kHz 26 dB
Channel separation at 15 kHz 15 dB
Frequency range at - 3dB 20-31.000 Hz
Frequency response 20-20.000 + 2 / - 0 dB
Tracking ability at 315Hz at recommended tracking force 80 µm
Compliance, dynamic, lateral 22 µm/mN
Stylus type Nude Shibata
Stylus tip radius r/R 6/50 µm
Tracking force range 1,4-1,7g (14-17 mN)
Tracking force, recommended 1,5 g (15 mN)
Tracking angle 20°
Internal impedance, DC resistance 1,2 kOhm
Internal inductance 630 mH
Recommended load resistance 47 kOhm
Recommended load capacitance 150-300 pF
Cartridge colour, body/stylus Black/Black
Cartridge weight 7,2 g
Replacement stylus unit 2M Black (interchangeable with 2M Bronze)
Stylus protection guard 2M Black

 

Thank you for your very well thought out response Rob. My system is in a state of flux and I will wait until things are settled before I audition a new cartridge, and I will also experiment some more with VTF. I suppose I'm just thinking ahead. BTW, my profile is way out of date. I'm using a Clearaudio Concept TT and Hagerman Cornet 3 phonostage with NOS tubes now, both powered by a Red Wine Audio Black Lightning battery supply. There is a Red Wine phonostage on the way too. My speakers are Tekton Pendragons.

Is SRA the same as azimuth? Should I get a test record to verify that I have it right?

 

I agree, a lot of change, all at once can be exciting, and it can also lead to confused assumptions. Best to go slow...

No, SRA is "stylus rake angle" please review this article and others on Fremer's Analog Planet as they will help bring your understand of how critical (and involved) this issue is.

http://www.analogplanet.com/content...icroscope-set-92-degree-stylus-rake-angle-sra

 

What are the primary genres of music that you listen to?

 

Primarily rock, reggae, jazz, electronic, and world I'd say.