Need advice on audio (music) setup

Early BBC LS 5/8:


The tone qualities of the BBC-School speakers are apparent in these clips.

 

Graham Audio BBC LS 5/8:

 

Early BBC LS 5/8:

 

Stirling BBC LS 3/6:

 

Spendor Classic 1/2:

 

Rogers BBC LS 5/9:

 

The speakers are scaled for different sized rooms, starting with the LS 3/5a, which is scaled for the volume of an (outside monitoring) van or small room, on up to the LS 5/8 (for large rooms).

 

Yes, but, afaik, they are not generally employed that way by consumers.

 

Thanks, Jwest97. So, let's say the goal is to listen to music anywhere between 65-100dB at a 12' or 4m distance. This means the speaker will have to produce 77dB at 1 meter, at 1 Watt. Suppose I need 65dB, then the amp will have to put out just about 0.5W (considering watts are more efficient the lower they are-- otherwise this value would have been 0.72W in a linear fashion)? But, in the above example, the spec sheet for the RTi A9 says the minimum watts recommended in 50W for the amp. I am assuming this is the peak load of the amp at a minimum, not the minimum watts required (if it is the minimum watts required, we are looking at the speaker rated for nothing less than 104dB, which doesn't make sense in a home environment). Am i correct in my understanding? Now, the Denon X4400H is rated at 125W RMS per channel. I am thinking this is okay, because it lies between 50-500watts of amp power per channel. Is that right?
The nitpicking me is going to also study a bit on acoustic interference between speakers (I guess the speaker design takes care of comb filtering) and how they affect amplitude in a mutichannel setup. )

 

Thanks gdo!

Hm, I did notice that. And I understand there is subjectivity involved. I am hoping to cut through that with some scientific base to it, but I also understand there is no quantifying timbre of loudspeakers. All I can do is understand the frequency response charts, and possibly a bit about placement of speakers and the possible acoustic interference. I know, lol, I am a bit of a nerd who trusts science more than trusting myself -- I believe I can grow to like nature better than a perceived notion of it, of what I might like now.

Yes, somehow it makes sense, doesn't it? Especially for the soundstage aspect? Maybe the AVRs are not there yet, but that might change with tech that is not channel based, as Atmos and Auro-3d claims. I hear Princeton has developed a tech to extend binaural capabilities to loudspeakers as well. Will have to wait and see how the industry make it commercially feasible.

I like my sound to be well staged, but most of the listening is going to be music rather than movies. So, I guess, the latter.

I know, I didn't mean I don't need watts, I meant more that the efficient usage of watts is important, as the emphasis is on tonal purity and dynamic range. I foresee listening at 65-100dB and that is not a problem with most speakers are AVRs. I guess that's what I meant.

 

Those seem to be some fantastic, no-nonsense, to-the-point, very original British like, speakers: you know, the you-get-what-we-say-you-get-and-nothing-more kinds. I have to visit Mumbai (a two hour flight) to get to listen to those. Maybe, when I travel on work, hopefully soon. But I am sure these are good for 2-channel setup. Again, I don't know if that is wise, will have to ponder over it, and listen to it. Will do. Thanks!

 

You probably don't want to listen much at 100db spl. You could cause permanent hearing damage.

 

Yes, I know. 65-85dB, it will be, mostly. More than that, the neighbours might complain too. 102dB, I what movie theatres work with; correct me if I am wrong.

 

Would be wise to anticipate checked baggage on your return flight.

 

According to THX, studio reference level for movies is 85db with 20db headroom. AV home theater receivers with Audyssey calibration use 75db at the listening position as the reference level.

 

Thanks, that is good info, at least for me.

 

Haha.. okay, thanks for that endorsement on the speakers. )

 

That should be fine for those speakers. Keep in mind, that in the example I gave about the VU meters on my amp, the meters are measuring RMS voltage. The actual voltage leaving the amplifier will spike constantly with every transient. Using an amplifier with too low of a power rating could result in an RMS output that is consistent with what you'd expect, but the peaks in your recording being heavily compressed in a way that will make the system sound very anemic. Keep in mind that you also have a larger room that you plan on treating. This means a little extra power could be quite a benefit. I'd say a 125W/channel (8 ohm) amplifier should fit your needs quite nicely. The RMS recommendation on a speaker does not mean it will only sound good with the minimum wattage running to it. It means that the manufacturer recommends an amp that is capable of comfortably reaching 50W RMS, so those transients aren't overly compressed and you can still get a reasonably loud and dynamic output from those speakers.

 

Ah, but the speakers and the AVR were just something I pulled for examples, for understanding purposes. So, thank you very much for helping me understand about the 'system' much better. Also, I am not planning to use a low wattage rated AVR, because I am a glutton for features and most of those features are paired with fairly decent wattage rated AVRs. Hm, I wonder what happens if someone really wants all the latest features, but needs only a few watts, say, people who wants a Atmos setup in a small room. They will most probably be spending more than necessary on the AVR... Thanks for all the clarification, @Jwest97. Now, I will get into studying the frequency response graphs for whatever speakers they are available for, and then, will audition only those which are known to perform fairly flatly. Now, since I also live in India, I have the issue of after-sales-service to be bothered about, which requires the presence of a reputable reseller. But, I know my way forward. I will post more for clarifications, and when I become a little better than a novice, probably will try to help out too (I hope), as all of you have done.

 

Another thing to consider with your budget would be custom speakers. I have heard some superb examples of these and in many cases they outperform their commercial counterparts. Moreover, you almost always get more bang for the buck with a custom design. They are great value.

One impressive example were the custom designs by Deja Vu Audio (of Virginia) that I often hear at East Coast (USA) Audio Shows. Mr. Vu builds (and re-builds) large horn models that sound superb.

Check out the 2nd half of the clip featuring the Customs Designs playing Duke Ellington's "Caravan."

 

Another example:

 

If you have the guts to go for it, I agree with this recommendation

 

Sure, they sound like they are good speakers, but do I have the guts to do a 5.1.4 setup with those as the FR/FL? Thanks for acknowledging it needs guts to do that. But I might just learn to like the honest beauty of the functional beasts. Then again, to the annoyance of many a audiophile, I guess am interested more about scientific analysis than merely what sounds good to me.

I was wondering this: A single sound signal travelling through the electronics of an AVR, a preamp or a power amp goes through its own journey. I've heard people say sounds from different amps sound different, even if those different amps are the same solid-state kind. We are not talking about distortion or other efficiency aspects, but just the quality of tone reproduction. Is there any study or test available anywhere to understand this? Maybe some test that studies what happens to a single sine wave input and how it comes out of the amp, and how true the signal remains, or what is the level of frequency shift, or whatever happens inside the electronics? Just wondering. Because, such a study might shed light on the components, materials and the engineering capabilities of the preamp/pre-amp part of the AVR/or even the power amp.

For eg., THX certifies AVRs (https://www.thx.com/certification/th...-av-receivers/) and one of the criteria is 'timbre matching'. But timbre matching sounds like 'how efficiently channels can produce the same timbre' rather than 'how efficiently can channels produce the same true timbre as the instrument in question'.

 

Scientific analysis can be fascinating and can be fun to study but when it comes to choosing hifi, your ears are the finest measuring instrument you can use. Don't discount the sophistication and discernment of your own hearing (no two people hear in the exact same way).

You really should choose what sounds good to you.

I recently came across the website and youtube channel, Pursuit Perfect System.

PURSUIT PERFECT SYSTEM

The proprietor, Terry visits shows, listens to a lot of gear and does reviews. He also has a really good camera and mic that gives me a nice taste of the equipment he is hearing. With most of the gear, I am impressed by and enthralled by the sound of the equipment. Its fun to sample a lot of hifi.

Yet, on occasion, I stop being impressed and enthralled by the sound of the gear and just listen to music. Such was the case, when listening to their demo of the Harbeth 40.2. I forgot about equipment and all its fascinating parameters and just got swept up in the music. The nine plus minutes of the clip flew by in an instant. I stopped taking mental notes and just tapped my feet.

That is what really good hifi does. It disappears behind the music. It does not call attention to itself as something that is artificial or separate from the music. It creates the illusion of live performance. For the duration of the listening session, you are transported.

Harbeth Monitor 40.2 demo: