Need Help Getting Started with Improved Home Audio

We will have to agree to disagree. This is a limitation to me. Why pay for a 24/192 to play at 24/96 when I could just buy the 24/96 and save some money. Why do any downsampling/converting at all? Isn't the point of quality sound is direct is best?

And based on your theory of blind tests, then why even buy a 24/96 or 24/192 DAC, just get a CD player and play CDs.

 

To point #1, different hi-rez stores have different pricing schemes. Some will offer 24/192 of a certain album and nothing else. Others will offer 24/96 and 24/192 at two different pricing tiers. Most of the music that a lot of us love wasn't recorded at 24/192 in the first place, it was recorded on analog tape. So "direct" sound quality is out the window.

To point #2, I do play CDs, have over 4,000 of them. But for certain albums the hi-rez sounds better because it has a unique mastering that is simply not available on CD, or not available easily. A famous example of that is Frank Sinatra's In the Wee Small Hours. There are no good CD versions available, PERIOD, that were mastered correctly outside of a very expensive OOP boxset. So I am left choosing between a 24/192 download and an LP reissue cut from the 24/192 download. I have both, and this is what I choose to listen to for this album, because these are best versions that are easily available. I suppose a mint copy of the original 10'' vinyl set from the 50s would be better but good luck finding that. Most available copies are in poor condition (e.g. below VG+ grade) and will have surface noise. So again, I listen to the best version I can easily get. My DAC can play 24/192 natively, but even if it didn't, I wouldn't be losing any sleep over it.

This will be last post I make in this thread re: hi-rez. I suggest you move on too, as this is pretty far off from OP's original question/topic.

To circle back to the original topic, I think a modest DAC will suit OP's needs and that OP should allocate the majority of their budget to speakers. A DAC such as the one in the NAD desktop amp discussed above, or the Schiit Modi 2 OP mentioned is probably more than good enough for OP's needs. Pretty easy to upgrade a DAC later, and speakers are far more important at this point IMHO.

 

Good input, thanks. I am calling the folks at NHT shortly.

 

Well, the SZ would have the advantage of a 4.5" driver and a tweeter, as opposed to just the full-range drivers in the Orb. Both need a sub, anyway. But I don't know how much that would matter at the desk. Assuming the little sub would be under the desk, there should be a nice blend. I'm guessing Orb has optimized that blend pretty well. They do offer the 30 day trial, so at worst you'd have a modest "rental" cost of return shipping. The same goes with their T amp- only one way to find out. The desk is the area where these little guys can work well, assuming the overall sound signature is pleasant and you can get enough clean volume. You could ask Orb (in your best tough guy voice ) "hey, look, is thing gonna give me harsh, pinched sound beyond modest volume?" If it did work fine, then you'd still have some budget $ to try out a nice little DAC from someone like Audioquest or Meridian.

Same with the C1, in terms of whether it would have enough bass to satisfy on its own (I think it would for me in your cozy environment). That would certainly be the simplest solution, and it is a very nice speaker. Only one way to find out, though, and they also have the 30-day trial. It would need, and presumably like, the NAD pairing. The NAD does have a nice bass boost button, IIRC, and the C1 acoustic suspension design is tolerant of bass boosting. (And yes, some isolation from the desk surface would be needed- NHT might even include some nice little "feet" pads.)

 

No worries on off topic posts. I enjoy the discussion. And thanks for all of your input on my questions! It's been very helpful.

 

I just thought I would post another speaker choice here. I got a message from a member on a used Dynaudio X12. These seem to be nice higher end speakers than what I have been considering. Any thoughts on this brand/model and any thoughts/considerations on buying used? I am waiting for pictures and asking price.

Thanks!

 

I don't have any experience with those but the brand seems to have a nice reputation. I would add they look to be rear ported, so I'd be thinking stands with a bit of room in the back for best results.

 

Points well taken. We can call it quits, but just so you know, the discussion is not off topic as the OP asked what's the significance of 24/96 and 24/192.

OP's question: "What is the significance of the 24/192 vs the 24/96? When does that come into play? Thanks"

 

Terrific speakers from what I've read. One of the great companies if high end audio. Probably more "appropriate" for your den, though. They'd surely appreciate a space where they could better show their stuff, where they'd have some more breathing room and give you a big ol' soundstage and really bloom.

 

You just triggered a thought. I have two other pairs of decent small speakers in other rooms (Den and kitchen/family room.). I could swap out one of those for an upgrade. I think I will go ahead and buy an amp/DAC and try one of those speakers in my office and decide on speakers from there. Thanks!

 

Yeah, you'll get instant feedback on the setup in terms of the "space"- you can see if you can make a little triangle that makes a singer float in air in front of you and paint a soundscape of sorts. Getting plenty of bass or wanting more, etc. Try 'em firing straight ahead, pointing right at your nose or in-between, with grilles on or off.

And if you end up getting the D 3020, hopefully you react like Stephen Mejias did in Stereophile when he tried it out: "This was the most fun I've had with hi-fi."

 

As @KT88 said, you could look into some powered studio monitors.

Yamaha HS5 Powered Studio Monitor
Yamaha HS8S Powered Subwoofer (the first review explains the necessity of using the sub really well)
2 of these to connect the sub to satelites > https://www.amazon.com/Mogami-Gold-Studio-06-Conductor/dp/B0002E1P2Q/ref=sr_1_4?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1497089118&sr=1-4&keywords=mogami+xlr

these 3 pieces would do the job really well on the budget you layed out. If you really want to use a turntable, you could get this for starters: Amazon.com: Audio-Technica AT-LP120-USB Direct-Drive Professional Turntable in Silver: AI-Audio-Technica: Home Audio & Theater
Amazon.com: Shure M97xE High-Performance Magnetic Phono Cartridge: Electronics

and add stuff later as you explore the possibilities. That should give you some extra money for some records and accessories. The one thing about using studio monitors is the flat response but the detail and accuracy will astound you. Hope that helps.

 

I'm perfectly satisfied with digital HiRes PC audio for my study but as someone who had a Pro-Ject Debut II a Rega RP1 and an AT LP120, I think that should you decide to add a TT you should get the AT LP120. Surprisingly, it's a better TT than the entry level Debut or RP and it doesn't require anything else beside what's in the box.

 

OK, well, I ordered the D 3020 yesterday! It will be here tomorrow. I am looking forward to setting it up. I have a small pair of Energy bookshelf speakers that I will bring into the office to test out the NAD. I can then decide on speakers from there. I did run across another recommendation on a Jazz forum (I mainly listen to classic jazz - Bill Evans, Miles Davis, Keith Jarrett....etc.), for small speakers. They were the PSB Imagine Mini. They seem to get very good reviews. They will be a bit over my budget but something else to consider.

And as it happens, I have two television watching spaces in the house with entry level receivers and speakers and one of them just died. So I will need to replace (upgrade) one. (should I be upset or excited?... ) So I am going to post another thread on that.

I will update here on how I like the NAD and what I end up doing regarding speakers.

Thanks again for all suggestions. Everyone has been very helpful. Maybe some day I can contribute back.

 

Cool beans and I hope it works well for you. Just a few D3020 tips, you are probably going to use USB input so this won't matter, but if you use RCA plugs, the RCA jacks on the back are very shallow, so if you were to press your plugs in all the way the plug sleeves will touch the back of the amp and create a short; no biggie just pull them back a bit so you have a ring of jack showing. Second the remote is impossible to read, so you either put to memory which button is which, or if you are a knuckle head like me cut some little pieces of different colored or shaped tape to put near each button to guide the way. Third it is a pretty tight fit back there, so if you are using banana plugs you probably won't have to worry, but I am using spades and so you have to be a bit creative, and in my case things sort of splay out left or right from the binding posts before going back (my D3020 stands vertical, which I assume is preferred as there is a venting grill on each side).

 

Well, for a pure desktop system it could be OK. But, a few "but"s:

- Physics says small speakers must trade off efficiency and/or bass response (Google "Hoffman's Iron Law"), plus physics also says that to generate bass you need to move more and more air as the frequency goes lower-not possible with tiny woofers. That is why folks here are recommending you go for speakers on "the larger size of small" (sounds like an album title, eh?)

- The small "T-amp" is powered by a Tripath chip, there are a zillion of those on eBay. Fine for what they are, but limited in power and likely the "power supply" is a big wall wart. It also STUPIDLY appears to have no provision to cut the bass out of their little speakers when you add the sub, thereby negating a chunk of the advantage of adding a sub in the first place.

- 100 watts for a subwoofer is not enough to really crank. Again, for a desktop-only setup maybe OK, but if you want to double as a room system probably lacking.

 

I'd just add that, for any speakers you might try sometime (unless you get some killer used deal), purchase from one of the dealers who has a 30-60 day satisfaction deal. And don't be afraid of demo or B-stock from somewhere like Music Direct, Audio Advisor, NHT or Soundstage Direct.

 

Hello again. I thought I would report back on my office music setup. I ended up changing my mind on an amplifier and went with the Sprout instead. I decided I liked the way it looked on my desk a bit better and I also liked the idea of a built in phono input. I also picked up a used pair of Dynaudio Excite X12's off of someone on the forum. So I just got everything setup and it sounds great! I can really hear the sound stage! Some of the instruments sound like they are coming out of my computer monitor - right in front of me! So I am very pleased with my decisions to this point.

One more thing I am going to look at is my computer audio software/tools. One problem I am having with iTunes is the album artwork is not always correct for CDs that I rip to Apple Lossless. Also I am not sure if there is a better player I should be using other than iTunes. So any thoughts on this will be appreciated.

Otherwise I will enjoy my new setup for awhile and then see if I get the itch to add a turntable.

Thanks again for everyone's help! Here is a picture of my setup...

 

All CD ripping programs are varying degrees of PITA. dBpoweramp is very popular but only the trial is free. I personally use Exact Audio Copy but it's not compatible with Apple OS AFAIK.

 

How did you like the NAD D 3020 otherwise? Also are you mac? XLD is a good free ripper for mac and will provide accurate rips (I think iTunes can do that as well but needs some extra settings); but if your only issue is artwork, you can always change the artwork in iTunes after the rip if you don't like what they chose.

 

I agree with the PITA comment. Although I should qualify that with, I'm not a computer genius. That said, I rip with XLD to AIFF (not Apple lossless) on my Mac mini which provides Accuraterip stats. Of the 800+ cds I've ripped, I've only seen a couple rips with no match in the Accuraterip database.
The results sound every bit as good as the cd.

 

Any of their 'Uber" headphone amps can feed an amp. They act like a preamp and switch outputs to the line-out when the phones are unplugged. For example, the input for my Valhalla2 headphone amp is from a DAC.with no phones plugged in, the line out goes into a preamp, which wouldn't be necessary if I only had one source input, but I have this record player thing i.e. So, if you had only one source, from the DAC, all you need is a DAC, headphone amp, active speakers to an amp and passive speakers. You could do an Uber Schiit stack $400?), amp (a used NAD maybe) off eBay ($200), leaving $600 for speakers. There are a lot of very good $600 speakers. Forget vinyl for now.

 

Feeding an amp and driving speakers are not the same thing. OP already bought a system.

 

Sprout + Dynaudio = sweet. Add a sub when you can.

iTunes is not regarded as THE most bullet-proof ripper, but if you have ripped many already, don't hear anything wrong, and absolutely don't want to rip all over again, you're probably OK. If you have a lot of ripping ahead of you, move to dbPoweramp; money well spent.

Album art: sometimes you just have to roll your own, regardless of ripper.

Ripping to Apple Lossless (ALAC) – or FLAC for PC/Windows – ensures full resolution plus best containment of metadata (titles, album art etc).

As a bit-perfect player for ripped Redbook CDs, iTunes is perfectly fine. If you have any hi-res at all, move to one of the many software players (I use and enjoy JRiver).

If you stay with iTunes, make sure you review all the preferences to prevent any unwanted interference from Apple / iTunes Store. Disable Apple Music. Enable "keep iTunes Media folder organized". I personally prevent syncing with my mobile device, but that's not for everybody.

 

Looking good! I'm pleased to see your new setup and learn that you enjoy it.

Regarding the computer media software: it's my opinion that you can't get anything better than J-River media center. They have a Mac version and you can try it 30 days for free.