Needle Drops and Stylus Dust/Dirt....

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by colby2415, Feb 21, 2018.

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  1. colby2415

    colby2415 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Canada
    I do quite a bit of needle drops (for those who don't know, basically a LP transfer to digital. I try to get my records as clean as possible using RCM and try and play through the disc at least once or twice before recording. Usually the first play after rcm a bit of gunk on the stylus is to be suspected (there's only some stuff that a thing, chisel like tip can get out). Usually after the one play things are good, and the stylus is usually spotless after each side. Anyways, I discovered this is worse with used records mostly, so it makes sense as there is sometimes years of dirt in there....

    The purpose of my thread is regarding stylus dust/dirt and the effect on needle drops. I always check with a loupe after each side recorded to see if there is anything on the stylus. My question is, how much is really enough to make a difference? Usually if there is anything I redo the side until the stylus comes out clean. However, after 2 or 3 tries its starts to get excessive to me. Sometimes its a little spec of dust halfway up the slanted part of the stylus that comes off easily with a brush, and sometimes there is hairs (that's what happens when you have cats). Basically I want to know how much dirt/dust/hair is too much.... If i understand correctly only the tip of the tip enters the groove, so if there is a hair snagged and dragged higher up the stylus would that really affect the reproduction of the record? Usually if its a big dust ball on the very tip distortion and such is VERY AUDIBLE. Had an lp that kept scooping dust out after like 8 plays, and it was easy to notice the quality degradation by the end. Anyhow, in my case I don't know where the dust that the stylus comes in contact comes from... it could be the run-in, run out or just throughout. I usually set a 21 minute timer for a side, leave the room and come back. So sometimes it has been sitting in the run out for a couple of minutes. Anyways, there needs to be a place where I draw the line between something making a difference and excessive OCD....
     
  2. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker

    Location:
    Toronto
    Which RCM do you have? How do you clean the LPs? What you're describing isn't normal.

    Have you used the Onzow Zerodust stylus cleaner?
     
    quicksrt likes this.
  3. colby2415

    colby2415 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Canada
    Yeah, I have the squeaky clean. My question here is mostly relating to the effects of the dust on the stylus and how much is a problem.....

    Double rinse seemed to help a bit, but I think some stuff is just getting redistributed on the grooves..... The static issue isn't a help either.
     
  4. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker

    Location:
    Toronto
    I can't answer that but I can say that a true bonafide self-contained proven RCM would get rid of everything, provided you use a good solution and use it as directed. None of my records ever have any dust or other detritus on your LPs, ever.

    The Onzow Zerodust is a lifesaver in regards to cleaning cheaply and efficiently the stylus.

    Personally, I'd recommend getting something like the Okki Nokki. I've never had any dust issues at all. I've never had a dustball on my stylus either. Again, not normal.
     
  5. colby2415

    colby2415 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Canada
    The dustball happened before I had an RCM.. now that I have it this seems to happen mostly with used records. I am using Mofi enzyme cleaner, and I let it sit longer than the directions say for every used record I buy. Perhaps that could be the issue? I find the double rinse with distilled water helps. I am pretty sure this stuff is attracted by the static on either the record surface OR the static of the stylus running in the groove is picking up crap out of the air..... Unfortunately this would be hard to 100% pinpoint, but I figure dust on the stylus is unavoidable no matter how clean your records are.... Trying to figure what is a typical amount, and what really might degrade the quality of my transfers. Take for example this genesis record I tried to do today. I recorded the album 3 times with varying amounts of dust on the tip after playing. The first wasn't too bad, the 2nd one almost all gone.. but by the third time the stylus was getting dirtier by the end. This is what is making me think it must be static on either the lp or stylus..
     
  6. colby2415

    colby2415 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Canada
    Also, one other thing to add... I'm thinking this stuff is just dust.. dust has always been a huge issue in my house but I really can't do a microscopic examination of the particles (thats a little OCD to me even)
     
  7. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker

    Location:
    Toronto
    Nevertheless, not normal. Like I said, spend a little coin to get the real deal RCM like an Okki Nokki and this would likely be a thing of the past.

    Another possibility is you're using too much solution. Also, it's possible not all of the solution is absorbed by your current RCM which will translate into junk ending up on the tip.

    You can either try to explore this in-depth but I quickly got the Okki Nokki and have never seen any amount of dust on my stylus, ever. I know it's the last thing anybody ever wants to read (i.e. throw money at the problem) but those are real solutions. I use Audio Intelligent #16 one-step cleaner and paired with the Okki Nokki, it's perfectly clean... every time.
     
  8. Mugrug12

    Mugrug12 The Jungle Is a Skyscraper

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    It's not from the record. It's stuff in the air that gloms on from static charge attraction. Are you using paper inner sleeves? My house is very dusty and this is a problem for me. I only use plastic anti static inners.
     
    nosliw and Metalrob like this.
  9. JNTEX

    JNTEX Lava Police

    Location:
    Texas
    I live in a wood floored house, no carpets, dogs (german shepherds), kids, horses, it's dusty and hairy, I vacuum daily.

    I have an AudioDesk. I have observed what you describe where you clean, and on the 1st and 2nd play, the stylus pulls crap out. I get that.

    Depending on my handling of the records, a cleaning usually gets me about 5-10 plays before I need to clean again. It's dry in the winter here, the dryness does not help. I don't have dustballs after repeated playings. The secondary cleaning and all subsequent cleanings are quicker just to remove any charge. Stylus is not generally pulling crap out of the groove after the 1st or 2nd play.
     
  10. colby2415

    colby2415 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Canada
    I already was reluctant in the first place to get an RCM but I am definitely happy with it. I do appreciate your input though, but chances are this is something not within my control, just like what Mugrug12 said... Chances are this is dust static attracted dust caused by the fact its dry as heck in the winter especially up north...

    Also, I never had this issue before...with this set up, it has come up in the last few weeks probably right in the heat of the winter. This is what makes me think its static/dust in the air related.

    The rcm I have is the squeaky clean (one of those bring your own shop vac deals).
    Squeaky Clean Vinyl MK-III RCM 3D Printed Record Cleaner

    I would have got an okki nokki but I am sure that you understand getting anything up here in Canada is never as economical as the US. I decided to go with this guy because it is canadian made, as well as being significantly less than what I would have paid for a okki nokki.
     
  11. colby2415

    colby2415 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Canada
    was using MoFi sleeves but started to get annoyed with them and hairlines (another whole issue that I really don't want to get into again haha). I do use some thin round bottom sleeves from amazon, similar to the ones nagaoka used to make. Easier for me to handle, believe it or not. However I do have static when flipping the lp over and sometimes it's quite bad, even with the ones still in Mofi sleeves.

    I do a thorough amount of brushing with an (supposedly) anti static brush... but I've been hearing that too can contribute to static build-up. At the end of the day... I can't be sure what this is being caused by.

    Maybe now is a good time to consider the ZEROSTAT gun....
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2018
  12. Mugrug12

    Mugrug12 The Jungle Is a Skyscraper

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    I use similar u-shaped inners. As far as flipping sides, someone once said if you first touch something metal when you arrive at the turntable that should mitigate the charge from walking over. I really just have to keep using the stylus brush and the zero dust in my house cuz it's a dusty place. The tube amp below also makes it hot and dry over there which doesn't help. One thing I can gaurentee though is there's nothing wrong w your rcm or records. Its the air+ static charge.

    Did anyone ever use a humidifier for this? Or is that madness haha
     
  13. colby2415

    colby2415 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Canada
    I think I've heard of people using humidifiers. Not sure what results you can expect though. If you have one sitting around might as well try it. Not sure If I kept mine (or even ever had one) Zerostat ain't cheap especially up here.. but may be worth while to consider. FWIW I don't remember this being as bad over the summer, even before I had the RCM. I have seen it suggested to touch the spindle too before and after (assuming its metal)
     
  14. Mugrug12

    Mugrug12 The Jungle Is a Skyscraper

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    It's worse at my place in the winter because the heat makes the air dry dusty and static-y. Is your heat on?

    Price for zero dust is kind of silly but it lasts forever so it's worth it. It all just keeps adding up doesn't it!!
     
  15. JBStephens

    JBStephens I don't "like", "share", "tweet", or CARE. In Memoriam

    Location:
    South Mountain, NC
  16. Metalrob

    Metalrob Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sweden
    Is it really Cold in San Francisco in the winter?
    You should spend a day here in Sweden playing Lps this time a year! haha
    I actually play Cds nov,dec,jan and feb because of the cold and Vinyl the rest of the year.
     
  17. Mugrug12

    Mugrug12 The Jungle Is a Skyscraper

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    It's been in the 40s at night lately. It doesn't freeze but pretty uncomfortable without heat. First world problems :tiphat:
     
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  18. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Skeptically Optimistic

    Location:
    Sweden
    Have not read through the whole thread but I would just like to add that what you hear in your first spins after RCM cleaning might be static.

    At least I know thats the case with mine and as a result Ive become better at differentiating static pops from dirt pops.

    Reading your post it seems that you have a problem with dirt even after cleaning though. Normally I would say that surface dust doesnt affect play very much, but if there is dust on the stylus even after RCM cleaning something has to be wrong.
     
  19. Chris Schoen

    Chris Schoen Rock 'n Roll !!!

    Location:
    Maryland, U.S.A.
    Seems to me that if you dust your record right before you play it, there should be nothing to collect on your stylus.
     
  20. Chris Schoen

    Chris Schoen Rock 'n Roll !!!

    Location:
    Maryland, U.S.A.
    Nah, San Francisco is cold in the Summer. :laugh:
     
    Metalrob likes this.
  21. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Skeptically Optimistic

    Location:
    Sweden
    Anti static brushes dont work the way you think they should. Brushing on a spinning platter adds more static, which attracts more dust. What you need to do is pick up the lp after brushing off current dust and dab the brush end around places of the record.
    Ever notice when you pick up a record after playing a side and touch around the spindle hole that you get an electric shock in your finger? Thats how the brush should discharge the static but around the playing surface.
    Just running the brush over the spindle doesnt do much.
     
  22. nosliw

    nosliw Delivering parcels throughout Teyvat! Meow~!

    Location:
    Ottawa, ON, Canada
    Around my area with humdity being so cold and dry, I do not have static issues with my records that was previously cleaned with my Nitty Gritty 1.5Fi RCM and placed in MoFi and other anti-static inner sleeves.

    My method in using my Stanton-branded anti-static carbon fibre brush is this:

     
    Grant and c-eling like this.
  23. c-eling

    c-eling They're made of light,We never would have guessed

    For my transfers-
    Sink and Dawn Ultra Blue.
    Got tired of the price's on those carbon brushes with the bristles falling off so I grabbed a 4 dollar washable auto detailing micro fiber brush, fits the width of the record.
    [​IMG]
     
  24. colby2415

    colby2415 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Canada
    I think i was a bit too all over the place in my original post... Anyways. I don't know for sure if this is actually dirt. The part about the dust ball I should not have added, as I think I just got everyone more confused..... That was in the past before I had an RCM. Now my question is basically is a few small little specs of dust on the stylus after playing a side reason to re-do a recording of it? After all when recording we want the best transfer possible.


    ill try this. and see if it does anything for my static.

    and that didn't give you issues with static? It seems like it would be just as bad if not worse than the carbon fiber brush.
     
  25. c-eling

    c-eling They're made of light,We never would have guessed

    No problems colby. I normally don't have issues with static, unless we have an unusually bitter winter- wood floors may be the reason, not sure.
     
    nosliw likes this.
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