Neil Young readies Pono music service for expansion Part 3

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by stereoptic, Mar 25, 2014.

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  1. LeeS

    LeeS Music Fan

    Location:
    Atlanta
    Hey, they bought Beats! Anything can and will happen. :cheers:
     
  2. DBMethos

    DBMethos Forum Resident

    In an ideal scenario, sure. But do me a favor and run a quick Google search for "loudness wars petition". Tons of them out there, it seems. Many of which I've already signed. Let's face it: the labels know exactly what's going on...they just don't care. Maybe if I were a celebrity like Neil Young with my own cameo-filled endorsement video, things might be different.
     
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  3. Stereosound

    Stereosound Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    I didn't find many. Also don't know how many signatures on any of them or know if any of them have been sent in yet. Plus a petition is one thing. There is contact info. For the labels and you could write to them yourself. If more people did that who knows. Yes we know the record labels only care about money which is sad. Although there are some people that work for them that do care about great audio they probably just have the wrong job title that would let them call the shots over the mastering/remastering jobs. Hopefully Pono will be successful enough to be able to help change the labels ways. The attention has started at least.
     
  4. DBMethos

    DBMethos Forum Resident

    Just to clarify, I don't want Pono to fail. In fact, I'd love for it to work out, because if nothing else it will expand the availability of what's out there already. I was just thinking of some of Neil's earliest comments regarding this venture, and how they were going to get the labels to go back and remaster their stuff for Pono. My guess is that they tried, they were told that it was going to be incredibly cost-prohibitive and went against current market trends, so they ended up quietly dropping that part of their campaign. Instead, to save face, they'll end up delivering their 192/24 FLAC files and still proclaim that they're saving audio from the evil mp3, despite the horrible modern mastering practices used to create those HD files.
     
  5. Gabe Walters

    Gabe Walters Forum Resident

    One aspect of the promised Pono store that seems to be getting lost in the discussion is that lossless downloads, including, presumably, of OOP CDs, will be available in America for the first time. Even if the store doesn't deliver on all of Neil's high-res promises, that alone is something to be thankful for. And the downloads won't be tethered to the Pono player--you'll be able to play the FLACs back in whatever software or on whatever player you like.
     
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  6. Stereosound

    Stereosound Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    Not saying I don't completely disagree with you. It's hard to say because we don't work for Pono per se however if it does take off they may then have the money to do so but it would be a matter of us the consumer to get on their case to do something about it instead of letting them be complacent if the money starts rolling in. It was also stated that some of the artists had some of their stuff remastered for or at least because of Pono that is going to be released on the artist signature series Pono players. It may of also helped to get the artists thinking about it for the future(the ones in the Pono videos anyway, hopefully they will talk about it with other artist friends of theirs as that would also help). As usual time will tell. Let's hope they stick to excellent provenance at least.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2014
  7. Stereosound

    Stereosound Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    I so hope you're right.
     
  8. Stereosound

    Stereosound Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    Anyone planning to go in October to give Pono a listen?
     
  9. DBMethos

    DBMethos Forum Resident

    Let's hope. :righton:
     
  10. Ephi82

    Ephi82 Still have two ears working

    Location:
    S FL
    Well,

    The next time someone gets anyone from Pono in an interview a critical question needs to be asked:

    Mr. Young,

    I think many music consumers and lovers are applauding your companies efforts to raise the sound quality standards of music available in portable players.

    However, as we are all learning, higher resolution and lossless formats are as only good as quality of the source materials. For example, if an artsists record company provides you with a 192/24 FLAC master, how is the PONO Store consumer going to know if the source is:

    1)a carefully master of the final mix with a dynamic range appropriate to the music
    2)the brickwall limited master used to create redbook CD's and MP3/MP4 downloads
    3)a master that was prepared for the use of cutting vinyl
    4) a third generation safety copy of the master of a 1975 recording
     
  11. Gabe Walters

    Gabe Walters Forum Resident

    Given the partnership with Omnifone, which claims to have a library of more than 8 million lossless tracks, I'm optimistic.
     
  12. TimM

    TimM Senior Member

    You make a valid point and I think it is the biggest problem right now with Hi-Rez. With CD I always thought it was a help to have as much information as possible when choosing to buy remasters or original discs. Right now digital audio seems like the wild wild west. I would be thrilled to just be able to download individual songs so I could see if I liked a given mastering, but I know that is not in the current business model.
     
  13. TimM

    TimM Senior Member

    I will say that I have very little desire to download CD quality files unless they are extremely inexpensive. With the price of used CD's, I would rather buy the CD, rip it and still hold the original. I can almost always find the CD I want cheaper than even the lossy file of the album. I can't picture anyone selling me a lossless copy of an album for $5.
     
  14. Charles Buxton

    Charles Buxton Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Antonio, Texas
    Your argument has merit, generally CDs, so far, have been cheaper than CD quality files, and it appears that is going to be the case with PONO. Still, could there be 2 sides to that coin?
    I see other advantages to downloading CD quality files:
    1.) Near immediate gratification? Can someone ship a CD to you faster than you can download it?
    2.) Savings in physical storage space. Put me in the minority, but I'd rather get out of the business of trying to continually figure out where to store the CDs. Let the small, inconspicuous hard drive, as well as a backup drive, take care of it.
    3.) It's my belief that any physical media comes with the risk of arriving with defect or damage. This risk, depending on how you look at it, either disappears or diminishes greatly, when simply downloading CD quality files.
     
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  15. TimM

    TimM Senior Member

    Those are legitimate points although I have never crashed into any of those walls yet.
     
  16. Charles Buxton

    Charles Buxton Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Antonio, Texas
    Then what you're doing is definitely working for you, so I say "Keep on 'truckin'" Happy trails!
     
  17. Rich C

    Rich C Forum Resident

    Location:
    Northbrook, IL
    I just want to touch again on this concept of "underwater listening" advocated by Mr. Young in the Kickstarter Promo Video. I am going to call him Mr. Young since he is not my friend, even though through his great art he has made me, and I don't doubt countless others, feel that he is a friend. Good ole' Neil, right? Standing up for truth, which is after all one of the definitions of fidelity.

    Mr. Young made the point that with CDs, you are still "underwater". But you are getting closer to the surface where air resides. I think he pegged the CD at about 200 feet below the surface. One thing that bothers me about this is that I do not recall Mr. Young telling his fan base to not buy his CDs, 8 tracks or cassettes when these were the only mediums available for distribution of his art. Do any of you?

    And I do believe he is still selling those Mp4s on the iTunes store that have only "5% of the auditory information contained in them". That is his claim, not mine.

    If he was this ultimate crusader for truth and high fidelity that he seems to get credit for, without any kind of close inspection or scrutiny I might add, don't you think he should offer his fans credits for CD, tape, and Mp4 returns of his music to go towards the purchase of a brand new Pono player?

    I was really happy with my starter turntable and system when I was 17 in '78 or '79. I had a decent tape deck to make compilations or record entire albums for my own use to keep my records pristine. I did not have one, but I could have been happy with a Walkman playing those tapes for portability. But then the vinyl industry left me in the lurch and made me switch formats. I did not go there without resistance.

    Eventually it was time to have to buy the old warhorses on CD. And I have not yet mentioned the replacing of bad pressings of vinyl or records that I played until the grooves wore out. How many more times am I going to buy this music again? The answer, for the most part, is I will not.

    So thanks, Mr. Young. You helped me to crystalize my thinking with this venture as I begin to collect nice records again for listening on my new turntable. Oh yes, I will buy some of your titles to be sure, but I think I will be mostly focusing on great Jazz records and great Classical recordings along with rock and roll records I have never really owned. It really is time to branch out and find new music.

    It's a big world of music out there.
     
  18. Huh? Lossless downloads are available in America through many sources right now.
     
  19. Gabe Walters

    Gabe Walters Forum Resident

    On the scale that Pono is promising? Where?
     
  20. Last edited: Sep 2, 2014
    LeeS likes this.
  21. Gabe Walters

    Gabe Walters Forum Resident

  22. ElvisCaprice

    ElvisCaprice Forum Resident

    Location:
    Jaco, Costa Rica
    Yeah, I would have to agree with Gabe. There isn't enough choices in lossless downloads here in the States. Even if Pono offers a ton of Redbook along with HiRes, it will be a good thing, since we don't have much to choose from today.
     
  23. You said that lossless downloads aren't available on the USA. Your statement was incorrect. The stores I linked to have lossless music available for purchase and download on a large scale.
     
  24. Have you ever browsed the Warner store?
     
  25. ElvisCaprice

    ElvisCaprice Forum Resident

    Location:
    Jaco, Costa Rica
    Links please to this wonderful redbook selection of downloads. I'm not finding them on the links you provided, Warner needs to open up the vaults. A few scraps here and there, mostly new releases. HD tracks is very limited in genre selection.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2014
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