Network music streamers: Why so complicated?

It has been said, but maybe not emphasized enough: The streaming device itself has no influence on sound quality, as long as it works at all. That is the point of digital, all that matters is that the data gets there, without errors, and in time. There is a grain of truth with the advice against wifi, because depending on external static in your area, it can sometimes slow down unexpectedly, even too slow for music, whilst wired ethernet is stable in that regard. Otherwhise all technologies are equal in the audio quality domain.

What matters for the streaming device is convenience/features/formats it supports/compatibility with existing hardware/design. Those should be the criteria to look out for.

The only hardware device that has an influence on sound quality is the DAC.

 

My means to convert computer based music is 1. usb DAC upscaling to 24/192, 2. Airport Express DAC operating at 16/44, 3. Sony TA-E9000ES pre/pro DAC operating at up to 24/96 via Creative Sound Blaster X-FI HD usb to S/PDIF converter. So far, I have the impression that the usb DAC (OPPO UDP-205) is delivering music with what I would describe as more breadth and depth than from my other DACs. Interestingly enough, the DACs in my pair of 26 year old Sony PCM- 7010F DAT Recorders also present music with that sort of breadth and depth operating at 16/44.1. At any rate, I suppose DAC development will continue whether it's reached a ceiling or not, since only the perception that the latest DAC's are better is enough to keep assembly lines humming on this sort of product.

 

Network music streamers: Why so complicated

The glib answer to that question is it doesn't need to be complicated.

Like most normal people, my wife and children stream with the greatest of ease using their phones. The hook them up to car stereos and the little music system in our kitchen with the minimum of fuss. They've been doing it for years and downloading before that. The only real issue has been persuading O2 to give them big enough data allowances.

It's us nerdy audiophiles who have made it complicated because that's what we love doing.

 

PC-->Router-->Wired-->SB Touch-->DAC-->Yamaha RX-V2090
Controlled by a Amazon Fire 7

 

Does anyone have experience with Microrendu and SOTm?

I trust that the audio quality is fine, but isn't it too much hassle with these extra boxes (an extra computer and a power supply)? Do you have ever find yourself not having the energy to turn all the equipment one if you are tired and just want to listen to a few songs?

 

JMAC, I was right where you are a little while ago and I admit it is pretty complicated. Personally, I opted for an all-in-one type solution starting with a Powernode 2i I bought from my local dealer when they put them on sale. I wanted something for my business office and having the amplification section worked great. Tidal on BluOS for PC>Powernode2i>PSB Alpha B1. This sounds great and Bluesound can decode MQA and hi-rez files. I also added an external SSD HD to my network with lots of hi-rez files and can access that through wifi. This setup for the Powernode 2i on wifi was a breeze. Adding the SSD was a little more complicated but Bluesound's tech support was awesome.
A couple of weeks ago I purchased a Simaudio Moon 280D which is a streamer and DAC. I was advised that it works best with an ethernet connection, but it is also capable of wifi connection. I used a powerline ethernet to connect from my router to my music room and the signal has been stable the entire time. Setup was super easy and I control the system with an old Galaxy Tab Pro I had laying around. Tidal on Mind app>Moon 280D>ARC LS-27>Rogue Audio Stereo 100>Proac Response D30R. I was totally blown away by the sound of this setup. Prior to this I rarely played anything digital because I would easily suffer from listening fatigue. I spent all weekend enjoying the ease of typing in a track and listening, no fuss no mess.
If you are looking for an inexpensive entry into streaming, my advice is to get a Bluesound node 2 and Tidal or Qobuz. When you run out of stuff to listen to and feel like adding an external HD or separate DAC, just add one. Think of it like a CD transport that has a built in DAC you can always upgrade later as funds permit.
Jon

 

I have an always on media server in another room and my digione also is on 24/7. I just turn on my amp and DAC and hit play.

 

Why would you convert everything to 24/192 and then down convert everything to 16/44, then convert everything to 24/96 again? Do each of those manipulations improve the sound in your opinion?

 

Sounds like you expect all streaming devices to handle the digital signal without errors and relay it in time, but I don’t think they all do that to the same degree. That’s the crux of my question.

It’s simpler to say that they have no effect on sound, but I am pretty convinced that network streamers add a set of variables that can add errors—or potentially fix errors from earlier upstream—before the data hits my DAC.

 

There are going to be plenty of people who tell you it doesn't matter and others who say it does. Personally, I felt I could tell the difference. I have no proof of this. Just go with your gut and don't overspend too much. IMO, spending $500 on a streamer isn't crazy, even if it's just for peace of mind. I don't even think about my transport...that's a good thing.

 

I have both the microrendu and the Allo DigiOne (not signature). I would only suggest the Rendu to somebody who either required DSD and/or USB or didn't feel comfortable in the marginally DIY nature of Pi stuff.

 

Sure. I have reviewed the microRendu and Sotm. Use them for functionality (see below) and not any claim of audio fidelity superiority.

You can leave them on all the time. The advantage of these streamers is that you can use a remote computer or NAS to serve up the file and then use these little boxes in your audios system. That way, you don't need to build a silent server.

Using a streamer and server will give you instant access to your entire library (and millions of songs online if you use a service like Tidal). That convenience is hugely worth it relative to the effort of turning on a streamer/computer.

 

@amirm thanks for chiming in -- your reviews are some of the best-documented sources of information on this subject. You would say (I think) that there are noise differences between those two devices, but that they would be inaudible. And, that much depends on the quality of the DAC's inputs and clock. Is that basically right?

 

Here's a little perspective on the kind of audio quality you can get from an analog audio signal shot through the air from a satellite feed most likely across the world into my Time Warner cable box on Cat5 cables through RCA cables to my Kenwood amp and out through its line out to my 2000 Mac Pismo Powerbook's A/D converter where I digitized to an aiff file using the free Coaster app. I lost count of how many connections that was and the distance it traveled but I think it's significant and it was done using 2003 technology...

Is this vinyl transfer any good?

It's the ConFunkShun song I burned to CD back in 2003 and now play through my car audio and it sounds amazing as I indicate in that link. In short I'ld suggest to get good sound quality from streaming audio you don't need to make this too complicated.

 

@amirm thanks so much for your helpful comment! I thought the reason for using the rendu or sotm was superior sound quality. If that's not the case, I don't need this. I am only streaming from tidal. Currently, directly from MacBook to dac.

 

Yes I do expect that, because it's a simple task to achieve. Errors would not be subtle, but harsh cracks. And delays would mean the music just stops. Since both do not normally happen with any device (unless it's broken), I do indeed assume that they all work at the basic level.

Transferring data across a network is usually error free, because there is error correction working at several levels. Decoding a compressed data stream (say in MP3 format) is deterministic, meaning different devices ought to produce the same PCM data stream from the same compressed data stream. There are no variables in that domain, unless something is broken, or the device is wilfully designed to alter the sound which I hope doesn't exist.

 

This morning I woke up half in and half out of the streamer rabbit hole - probably because last night I bought a new phono stage on eBay. Anyway, doesn't the argument that bits are not just bits effectively undermine the original argument for digital music? If, when buying my first CD player several decades ago, someone had told me that someday I would be obsessing over how to move my digital stream pristinely around my house I might have just gone and bought a new needle instead.

 

Fair enough. Some might say that how this error correction is implemented can effect sound quality, but I haven’t had the first hand experiences to hear it. I had a Mojo/Poly combo and used the Poly as a streamer, but I prefer the sound of my current DAC, USB wired to laptop, to that.

Right now I connect my DAC directly with my laptop via Amazon USB cord. It sounds fantastic! I am curious whether (and to what extent) I hear a difference once I integrate a streamer into the system.

 

This has been argued ad nauseum. I was skeptical as well, but considering I wanted to get my PC out of my chain, I decided to try something decent while I was at it and my ears perceived a difference. It could be all psychological, who knows. Since mine is a spdif interface, rise time might be coming into play. I'm not gonna argue against "bits are bits"...it's difficult to refute and I have no proof. Thing is, a placebo still works

 

But don’t CD players also try to solve for errors in reading the data from the disc? Not the catastrophic skips, but common errors that can affect the timing and pacing of the music. At least this is my understanding behind the PS Audio Memory Player, for example.

 

Which phono stage did you buy, by the way?

 

I think that data accuracy and jitter reduction are old school problems. I'm talking about the idea that the digital stream needs to enter you DAC free of any electrical disturbances. This is a whole new category of audiophile suffering for me. Did you ever pass on a CD player because it didn't have a linear power supply? I never did. It never occurred to me that it might have one and I was happier for it.

 

Graham Slee Reflex M for about half of new.

 

I know what you mean. Some days I feel like Julianne Moore in Safe:

 

I'm not arguing that bits are bits. I'm saying that the argument that "bits aren't bits" somewhat undermines the original value proposition of digital music.

When you got into this you may have known you would spend a lot of dough on the analog chain but were you expecting to spend big on data in - data out device like streamers or servers?