Never pair vintage electronics with modern speakers......

.......unless you want to find out how good electronics can be. I made this mistake a couple of days ago. I have an Accuphase E-202 integrated that I've had kicking around for quite a few years now. I've always done what it seems most people do with such gear and paired it with speakers of reasonably similar vintage. I thought the E-202 sounded quite enjoyable, but given its age never placed really high expectations on it in terms of sound stage etc.

So to cut to the chase: I recently purchased some Reference 3A mm de Capo speakers to run in my tube system. It being the hot season I thought I'd try a few other possibilities as well and on a whim set up with the Accuphase. Oh my. I had a listening session last night full of revelations, both with regard to the amp and to the music. One track in particular was full of surprises; Katell Keineg 'High July', track 7 'Little Joe'. Countless layers of tracks front to back and an amazing effect where the sound of a muted drum starts out at centre stage and over the last part of the track starts to move upward until by the end it has vanished into the ceiling. How did they do that?

So, anyone else running good modern speakers on vintage amplification? How did it work for you?

 

I'll just say that, IMHO, I'm always surprised that people seek out vintage speakers for anything more than nostalgia's sake. Modern speakers, and speaker design in general, has benefitted from tools LIGHT YEARS beyond what was possible even 20 years ago. Vintage amps, vintage turntables - yeah... I get that.

 

Reference 3A are good speakers. You have no crossover to start with, and custom low-distortion drivers. I updated my amp recently, but I know it provides even more detail. The thread title makes it sound like you had a bad experience, but the description sounds very good.

 

I was being tongue in cheek in my title, strictly so. The experience was rather deleriously enjoyable. I've also paired some other vintage SS (Yamaha C-4/Epicure M-1) with some relatively recent Vandersteens with excellent results. I have to say that I'm seriously impressed with the 3As, really pleased with the purchase. They sound wonderful with my CJ tube gear as well of course. I have to say I was surprised at the potential in the E-202 as I've never noted anyone commenting about particularly good ability at imaging, but there it was..... timbre, openness and detail are far better than I imagined as well. I bought the amp on a bit of a whim a number of years ago and it has never settled anywhere around the house so I was thinking of selling it. I thought I'd give it one last chance to convince me one way or the other and it certainly has done a most effective job!

 

Vintage speakers can make for some really pleasurable listening, but in general it is of a different sort than what is possible with the better new designs. I have a few pair that I quite like (EPI M50 and B&W DM-14 in particular of late), but in a different sense.

 

Hmmmm. I just don't buy this argument. I think I heard this when CD players came out and vinyl became a "dead issue." As far as speaker design, I like to use my ears, not tools to tell me what sounds "right." I mean, what kind of modern speakers are we talking about? $5K esoterics vs $600 JBLs? I think with audio being less mainstream and a part of regular homes, higher end manufacturers are throwing more money into designs, too. But even that isn't a sure sign of bettering things. A member here recently mentioned how a 1981 Sony Ps-x7 turntable with a Blue Book of about $100 sounded better to him than a VPI Super Scout, so, modern tools aside, there's a lot to be said for good simple design ... and that was perfected a long time ago. I had a decades old pair of KEFs which I thought killed several generations worth of "modern" KEF designs (Fortunately KEF is coming back around).

 

Vintage and modern speakers, more so than any other components, vary so greatly in sound that it is really hard to make comparisons. I have heard systems utilizing early 1930's drivers that sound better than almost all modern systems I've heard. But, this comes at considerable cost--in terms of dollars and particularly in terms of space (both the excessive size of the speakers and the kind of room needed for a proper setup). Some of the modern systems I've heard that could compete were really based on older technology (GOTO horn systems, for example). The better modern speakers, like the SoundLabs U-1 PX electrostatics, also sound very good, but in different ways and personal preferences and priorities still govern which sounds best. Because many of the very best vintage systems are large in size, they became even more impractical when stereo came into popular use and speaker design went completely in a different direction--it was not really the case that the technology was superseded by something sonically superior.

If by vintage, one means 20 year old vs. current small box speakers, there have been technological advances in driver design and materials, computer-aided design of cabinets and crossovers, etc. that makes it much easier to build decent speakers. BUT, what remains vitally important is a good ear and proper voicing by the designer/builder. This voicing is an art, and a good speaker from the past can outshine some current designs because of proper voicing (by proper voicing, I mean something completely subjective--what I happen to like). To me, while modern advances -- stiffer, lighter cones, greater freedom from breakup modes of drivers, less cabinet resonances, etc. -- certain give modern designers better ingredients to work with, how the designer voices the speaker is FAR more important in determining the overall sound than such technical attributes.

 

Not saying that there aren't some excellent older speakers, not by a stretch. I'm not sure that there were a lot of speakers for any money contemporary with the E-202 that come even vaguely close to what the de Capos can do, however. I've owned (and still own) a number of the iconic speakers of the period and they are two different topics to a large extent. One can get into all manner of discussions about new vs. old and that wasn't really where my mind was at when I first posted. Really just surprised and delighted in the potential I discovered in a piece I'd always viewed as just classic nice stuff.

I'm still hoping someone can explain to me how the effect of that muted drum marching up the wall and through the ceiling I mentioned in my original post was achieved? Every few measures it moves up a few inches until it vanishes. Magic.

 

Regarding older speakers, I'll take my 1980-ish UREI 813As - with their time-aligned Altec 604s and Eminence 15" woofers - over many new units. Of course if you plunked a new pair of B&W 801s in my lap, I might change my mind

So as always - it depends.

 

Yes, it definitely depends. I had been running the Accuphase with various good vintage speakers and the 3As were a whole different thing. It no longer sounded at all like something "vintage", just like good modern audio.

 

I love vintage speakers a great deal, but to the OPs question:

I hooked up my Fisher 500B to a pair of Triangle Celius 202 floorstanders and was pleasantly surprised by how spectacular the combination sounded. Those speakers are ultimately better off with something that can utilize them to their greatest advantage, but when I do use the Fisher I'm *always* just enjoying the hell out of the music.

A few months ago I got a pair of Magnepan 1.6's and, out of curiosity, connected them to a Mcintosh 2105 (early 70s SS amp), which is fed by a Mcintosh MX110Z and THAT particular combination has delivered the most alive, musical, engaging and FUN presentation I've experienced. I'll definitely be trying the speakers out with modern gear but I am in no hurry at all to put an end to the extreme joy I'm experiencing right now.

 

Yes. Much like our host "voices" his masterings. It is an art!

 

Used to run a pair of Mission 752s with a Sansui AU-717 and previously the 217 from the same range. Sounded amazing. The 717 was great, but the 217 was a real surprise.

 

Those Triangles are really nice.

Prior to setting up the Accuphase I was running a McIntosh MC250 with my CJ PV-12 tube pre with the de Capos and that was really quite delightful as well. I'm having fun playing with combinations while the house is under renovation and it is all in a state of flux. I also tried a freshly restored Yamaha CA-1010 with them. I wasn't quite as fond of that pairing, prefer the B&W DM-14s with it. That is a really nice pairing.

 

I like it the other way around, vintage JBL L300's with modern MC402.

 

Pair an Accuphase E202 amp with refurbished Gale 401 speakers and you get superb sound.One of the all time great combinations.
A pair of reconditioned Gale 401s will see off the vast majority of modern speakers in the $10,000-$15000 price range.

 

I run a vintage Marantz 2238 w/ modern B&W speakers in my family room. Really nice sound and perfect for the room and most casual listening.

 

Huh! I'm not familiar with Gale. Thanks for the introduction. They sound very interesting. Favored by Quad fans looking for more output. Interesting.

 

I use a Marantz 2238b with Focal 826Vs. It's a beautiful thing.

 

Yup. I'm pairing my resto-modded Fisher 400 and Thorens TD-124/SME 3009 with a pair of KEF LS50's. I would never "waste" the Fisher on old speakers that can't reproduce all of the nuances.

I agree with this too... In the basement system is a resto-modded AR-TX (early AR-XA) paired with a Yamaha CR-1020. The speakers in that system currently are the new Andrew Jones-designed Pioneer floorstanders - which are quite good - but I'm going to be be picking up in a few weeks from a guy in New Jersey a pair of fully restored 1967 AR4x's. There are pleasures to be found in the old designs too.