DCC Archive New APEX Player AMAZING!!

I've been looking at the new APEX player.

This will play:

DVD (not sure about DVD-R)
CD
CDR
CD/RW
MP3
DVD-Audio
SACD

Wanna know the best part? the MSRP is only 349!!!!! which means some online retailers should have it for 299$$!!!!

Holy Cow (as my pal Phil Rizzutto would have said)

I will be FIRST in line when J & R has this!!

heres the link to it: http://www.apexdigitalinc.com/html/AD-7701.html

 

There's a saying: jack of all trades, master of none. I would be surprised if you enjoyed CD on this machine, relative to others in its price class. Apex is a notoriously crappy manufacturer. Not to dissuade you--just a word of caution. Make sure you have a 30-day return policy.

 

Greg said:

"I repeat, there is no machine that does SACD, DVD-A and HDCD for less than $1500. If I'm wrong--and I'd love to be--I'll be the first to admit it. But the fact is that such a machine doesn't yet exist.""

>>>>>Greg, the APEX DOES do HDCD.....check the link. And it does it for only 349$!!!!
Hows that for a solution??

Mikey

 

Well, Greg, I understand where youre going, but I dont really agree.

The APEX players are made in China, I believe, where labor and factory space is cheap as dirt.
Yes, they may not use the top shelf components, but at this price point, IF the functionality is there, does it matter?

I'll take a player that does all this for 299$$ over any 1,500$ every day of the week.
Remember, theres no law that says your 1,500$ player wont break!!!

Mikey

 

Personally, I suspect that the sound quality of the Apex will leave something to be desired. However, it's very existence will likely prompt other manufacturers to come out with their own universal players.

 

Hey Gary,

Does Sony deserve that kinda abuse? Gotta Sony pro-burner that I like. Some people like their SACD players. Do ya really think Sony & Apex are equal?

Just askin',
Jeffrey

 

Hi Gary,

No need to apologize. No harm, no foul.

Thought the point of your post was that ya thought Sony & Apex sucked. Was the point ya get what ya pay for & cheap is cheap?

Just askin',
Jeffrey

 

Actually this may not be too bad. I'd like one as a 2nd unit for my home theater, for the multichannel. I'm really curious if it does multichannel SACD. It's not absolutely clear on their specs. Quality wise, Apex is hit or miss, but hopefully been improving if they want to be taken seriously. Of course with this much capability at this price there's bound to be major compromises. But there is this firmware upgrade feature, very interesting! Hopefully they'll be reviews soon. For most this might be a good entry level player or like me a 2nd unit.

 

The introduction of this player, announced in January, has been repeatedly delayed due to "production problems." A salesman at J&R, from which I ordered one in July, recently told me that he doubted it will ever actually come on the market.
I question how good it will actually be, if it ever arrives, but figure that, between the low price and J&R's 30 day return policy, how can I go wrong?
Now, when DCC starts releasing SACDs so that my options will not be limited to Sony's droppings to date..... Sure looks like Billy Joel has one sorry contract, allowing Sony to pick from any of his albums for SACD release! Sure looks like Springsteen's is solid as a rock!

 

I have the Apex 500w as one of my DVD players, and I give it total thumbs up on many fronts. It can truely play VCD, which is a fairly easy way of putting movies to recordable CDR format for cheap, in decent quality. It will do Mp3s, and while it's not a big deal, it's nice to download some books-on-audio that add up to 6 hours worth of content, to use less than 1/2 of a CDR. You just need to burn your Mp3's to pr2e-made, organized folders, and the audio never stops. I just go upstairs and clean house with it running for hours. Not many DVD players will actually play a homeade VCD from VCD 2.0 book standard (CDR) either. It's very useful to put some camcorder rips on a disc, and put it directly on the TV for the family. There is also content from the 'net which may not be of "legal" (Harry Potter VCDs) that are posted to Usenet. They'll also support just baout any DTS audio disc. The sucker plays just about anything, and depending on the model.

This may not create many WOW's, but the decks are inexpensive, modifyable and component-replaceable if you are the daring type. Wallmart has them, and the prices continue to drop.

Don't turn your head from the APEX decks, seriously.

 

Mikey sez:
> Greg, the APEX DOES do HDCD.....check the link. And it does it for only 349$!!!!
Hows that for a solution?? <<

Indeed. First let's see if the unit actually ships--it's been held up a long time, as Bill pointed out. As of now, there still is no "solution".

>> Well, Greg, I understand where youre going, but I dont really agree. The APEX players are made in China, I believe, where labor and factory space is cheap as dirt. Yes, they may not use the top shelf components, but at this price point, IF the functionality is there, does it matter? <<

It depends, Mickey. For example, I wouldn't want an SACD player that converts DSD to PCM before converting it to analog. This is a major distinction IMHO. But others may not care. I've found two general rules of audio to be very helpful: simpler is better, and you get what you pay for.

>> I'll take a player that does all this for 299$$ over any 1,500$ every day of the week.
Remember, theres no law that says your 1,500$ player wont break!!! <<

If something breaks, I replace it--under warranty if possible. What's the warranty like on the Apex?

David sez:
>> Personally, I suspect that the sound quality of the Apex will leave something to be desired. However, it's very existence will likely prompt other manufacturers to come out with their own universal players. <<

Well, the Pioneer has existed for about 2 yrs, albeit at $5k and it has not prompted universal machines. Guess I'm still trying to figure out why anyone would want a universal machine. Pick your favorite format and support it. Otherwise you are supporting industry indecisiviness. It is this same indecisiviness that has held up HDTV in limbo for years. I don't wish to see that happen to high resolution digital music.

Gary sez:
>> Well Idunno.... what's better? Or should I say what's worse? Sony or Apex? But if Apex does HDCD....! <<

Well, I have yet to listen to the Apex (it has yet to ship) but I'll put some serious money down on my mod'ed SCD-1 outperforming the Apex by a long shot on both CD and SACD. Any takers?

Jeffrey sez:
>> Does Sony deserve that kinda abuse? Gotta Sony pro-burner that I like. Some people like their SACD players. Do ya really think Sony & Apex are equal? <<

No, of course. Apexes are cheap, knock off models that appeal to the KMart crowd. For the quality conscious, there are better choices. Sony is not a high end company, but they certainly put their best foot forward with their SACD players and with a parts upgrade to their ES models, you do indeed have quality gear.

Bill sez:
>> Now, when DCC starts releasing SACDs so that my options will not be limited to Sony's droppings to date..... <<

Well I've enjoyed Sony's droppings. They sound superior to Steve's gold CDs. But I agree with the sentiment that we should get some SH-remastered SACDs produced so we can hear the ultimate.

 

Sckott, nothing to do with this particular thread but your signature is BOSS!

 

Boy, that's a silly statement if I've ever heard one. Let the industry "fight it out" with SACD and DVD-A. Let the consumer enjoy the music, whatever format it's in.

It seems that some people (here) want to see SACD/DVD-A/whatever replace CD. Which I don't think will happen in the near future, if ever. The *only* advantage those formats have over CDs is sound quality, and the sound quality of CDs is more than good enough for the majority of people out there.

 

Only a good listen will tell for sure, but do you suppose that the analog outs on a $300 player will toss aside most of the information that makes SACD/DVD-A supposedly better than CD?

 

Luke, That's what's going to basically happen, I believe as well. The ammount of audiophiles truely out there aren't enough to replace the 16bit 44.1 CD. Ironically, Napster killed the hopes for trying to convince people that expensive CD players and SACD would part water. They've tasted cheap, and they want more. Sadly, CD prices seem to be going up, and DVDs are on a lot of Xmas lists. This is the <==mainstream==>. An audiophile is but a spec on the winshield.

DVD-A or the DADs are actually quite clever because it doesn't single out only those with dedicated players at large. Hey, if you want to see the sights of high-bandwith audio, you can still do it with DVD technology you may already have. I still love the DTS sound. Also love the fact that with a few loose screws in my head, I could dedicate a few weekends and do some DIY projects with DTS for fun. Ever heard "Frankenstein" by the Edgar Winter Group in 4 channel? Yep, it's sick. Beyond strange and weird.

The audiophile labels have had it a bit rough just selling titles on common formats, DCC included.

I do like SACD, but I think we'll have to see how low things go in the coming months. I think by the time SACD becomes cheep, it might take a nosedive.

The tube below (thanks for the compliment Dave) is kinda boss. Without that single (Sovtek) 5AR4, my Dynacos won't do anything but light up and look pretty

 

Maybe/Probably. That's why I think the main value for a cheap player like this would be for the multichannel capability.

 

Luke Pacholski sez:
>> Boy, that's a silly statement if I've ever heard one. Let the industry "fight it out" with SACD and DVD-A. Let the consumer enjoy the music, whatever format it's in. <<

Now you're being silly. How can consumers enjoy the formats when the industry is so screwed up it can't even firmly commit to one? Take Sony for example--the SACD releases are coming slow as crap. Take DCC as a microcosm--one reason they have been so slow to commit to SACD or DVD-A is because they don't know what consumers want. And most of us are so lazy that we don't investigate the formats and figure out what we prefer ourselves. We'd prefer to buy a cheap "universal" machine and let others do our homework for us. Ah well. . .

>> The *only* advantage those formats have over CDs is sound quality, and the sound quality of CDs is more than good enough for the majority of people out there. <<

Not true. The formats provide surround sound and have provisions for video/images. With one of the biggest spenders in A/V being the HT market, this is a serious consideration, though I don't care about multichannel any more than you do. Also, don't kid yourself about the marketability of improved sound. There's a reason the record labels keep putting out "new and improved" remastered versions of their best selling titles.

Pinknik sez:
>> Only a good listen will tell for sure, but do you suppose that the analog outs on a $300 player will toss aside most of the information that makes SACD/DVD-A supposedly better than CD? <<

Only if that analog out is run through a cheap A/V receiver that digitally processes the incoming analog signals. The output of these units is easily measured, but you'll have more fun listening.

[ November 28, 2001: Message edited by: GregM ]

 

Consumers don't enjoy "formats" - they enjoy what's on the formats. If people have a player that will play CDs/DVDs/SACDs/etc, they won't really care what format the Quad mix of LA Woman is, as long as they can play it. I know I wouldn't.

DCC's problems (particularily the lack of new any releases, in any format) stem more from other problems (which I don't think we should get into here) than any format war between SACD and DVD-A. Steve has even said that the new stuff will come out on gold CD first.

Who's to say we *should* "prefer" one format to another? Why can't both be more or less equal?

True, but considering most music is listened to on boom boxes, walkmen, and in cars, I don't think most people really care. How many people sit down in front of their "AV system" (assuming they even have one) just to listen to music?

Yeah, and many people don't care about that, either. When Xmas shopping, my mom made the comment about a CD "why do we need the 'remastered' one?" That speaks volumes...

 

Right, the average consumer is pretty wary of new formatts if they are aware of them at all. It goes back to everyone who got corned by the whole VHS/Beta thing. This is like quad back in the 70s'.

 

Originally posted by Luke Pacholski:
>> Consumers don't enjoy "formats" - they enjoy what's on the formats. <<

Jeez, Luke, I think this goes w/o saying.

>> If people have a player that will play CDs/DVDs/SACDs/etc, they won't really care what format the Quad mix of LA Woman is, as long as they can play it. I know I wouldn't. <<

Be realistic. Do you notice when you have a DCC version compared to another version of a title? And those are both the same format. Moreover, you know DVD-A requires a TV in your system just to navigate on-screen menus and in some cases the discs default to the multichannel mix. So you buy LA Woman on DVD A and find yourself on Riders of the Storm hearing wind, rain, guitar and keys, as well as Morrison's "reverb" track of the vocals. . .the rest is on the center and rear channels. You notice this! How could you not?

>> DCC's problems (particularily the lack of new any releases, in any format) stem more from other problems (which I don't think we should get into here) than any format war between SACD and DVD-A. <<

That's besides my point, in which I was careful to state that the pluralism of formats was "ONE" reason we have not seen new titles or reprints from DCC for so long. I am well aware there are other reasons.

>> Who's to say we *should* "prefer" one format to another? Why can't both be more or less equal? <<

They can, but they de facto have differences which we, as audio quality-conscious music fans need to recognize.

>> How many people sit down in front of their "AV system" (assuming they even have one) just to listen to music? <<

According to CES, the fastest growing market in A/V.

>> When Xmas shopping, my mom made the comment about a CD "why do we need the 'remastered' one?" That speaks volumes... <<

Ask yourself whether your mom represents the bulk of the music-buying public. I'm inclined to agree that sound quality is not an overwhelming factor in mass consumption of music--and we've been over this many times on the old board--but it is a marketing strategy and a successful one. And many a record exec is watering at the mouth at the prospect of selling all those multi-platinum titles *again* in a new format. Let's just try and steer them toward the best format is my point.

[ November 28, 2001: Message edited by: GregM ]

 

Yeah, I tend to think she does, actually. Most people buy whatever is on the shelves. If it says "remastered", so be it. People just want a copy of "That'll Be The Day", the don't care if Steve mastered it or if it has noise reduction or if it's "newly remastered".

 

That is right Luke. Your mother does represent the average music buying public.