NEW: Harbeth 40.2 announced!!

I bet it would.

 

Heck the little Nait sounds great with the P3's and C7's.

 

Any thread he joins turns into an Audio Note speaker thread. You could say "it's raining in Seattle" and if Richard makes a post in your thread it will turn into something about his speakers.

 

Mostly par for the course on audio boards, though. A lot of brand loyalty in this hobby, I've probably sounded like a broken record suggesting the same products in dozens of threads too. I'd say the Rega lovers are probably the worst about it.

 

Of course, I was just having a bit of fun (hence the smiley )

 

Everyone loves and recommends what they own. It justifies their choice.

 

There is a difference between brand loyalty by customers and salesmanship by folks whose job is reviewing with what one would hope would be a pretense of neutrality. I expect customers to be vocal about products they are either satisfied with or disgruntled over. That's common, he or she with the most interest posts. I do expect Richard to discuss the joys of Audio Note, reviewer or not. What bothers me is the constant, on and on, about Audio Note regardless of the topic of the thread. I like the stuff I own but it isn't appropriate as a recommendation for everyone. It may sound good to some and like ass to others...

This thread is about a new Harbeth product but as soon as Richard got involved it was as much about Audio Note as Harbeth and that is the case over and over on any forum he is involved with. Not the end of the world and in the end it doesn't matter.

 

I rarely recommend what I own. I certainly speak about how much I like it and the pros and cons of ownership, but I save recommendation for products that I have used and that I think are appropriate to the individual who is asking for advice.

 

I'd like to hear these speakers with 200 + watts of tube power going into them, not to blast them but rather to get
the best out of them at lower volume levels. With the new KT-150 tubes inspiring a new renaissance in non-solid
state amplifier design, I can't wait to see the results with great speakers such as this new 40.2...

 

An excellent strategy.

 

Ah, RGA, now I get it.

 

Hey Richard! We love ya' man, but there is some validity to the statements made. I will speak to you, not about you though.

 

Okay. Take everyhthing I have said about the AN E and substitute DeVore Oramgutan. A speaker I have never owned or reviewed. Same applies almost. Far easier to drive and cheaper. All comments on efficiency should also hold.

As for bias...Unlike most reviewers I am not interested in raving about everything that comes my way nor do I wish to pretend to be objective about sound when I feel something is very CLEARLY superior in a given range. I tried. I bought the J in 2004. I have heard about as much as you can hear under $10k and we'll above. Ended up with an E. If someone can point me to a better speaker that can be driven SET that has bass to 25hz flat in room that is tone monster...I would love to hear and doesn't cost double or triplelike Devore or Harbeth I will be anxious to hear them. Suggest me stuff.

It's easy for me to recommend lots of other speakers but they cost more.

 

Okay, Richard DOES talk up the AN stuff a lot, but, there is a LOT of sensible and useful information in his postings. He has preferences and priorities, like everyone else, but, I don't think it if fair to use the term "bias" as a perjorative to describe his preference. If someone has CLEAR and STRONG preferences that come from extensive experience and expresses specifically why certain speakers push his buttons and others don't, that is really a good thing. There are plenty of people on these forums who don't seem to have such clear ideas their own preferences, much less how the gear does or does not match with their preferences. The most useful information comes from those who express such clear and consistent "bias" because I know where they are coming from when they speak about a particular subject or component. There are reviewers whose "rave" reviews are all over the map and that gives me no clues as to whether the component would be something I would be interested in.

As to the AN speakers he likes, I tend to agree with his description of the sound. He refers to the AN-E as a "tone monster" which is to say that the sound seems so saturated and full-bodied and rich with the harmonics that that characterixe acoustic instruments and the human voice. I hear that too with Devore, Harbeth, Spendor (classic line), JM Reynaud, certain Sonus Faber speakers (Stradivari), and a few other speakers. What makes the Audionote stuff distinctive is that the sound remains reasonably lively and bouncy where some other tonally similar speakers tend toward being plodding and "polite" sounding. I like the Devore O93 and O96 a lot, but, I do wish they had a touch more giddy-up to their delivery. The Harbeth speakers are decently lively sounding but, for my tastes, there is a touch of "roughness" and a slightly artificial edginess to vocals (this is being hyper critical, I DO like their stuff).

I do understand the point of view of those who do not like the AN sound. Yes, the bass is a bit exaggerated and boomy. There IS a bit of midbass prominence that accounts for the tonal saturation. Personally, I would like a bit tighter bass, but, I think there are inherent tradeoffs involved--you cannot have both extremely tight bass and bass that seems to be tonal as well. Likewise, I don't think you can have extreme clarity and tonal richness (the midbass that provides tonal richness tends to also muddle the sound). While I am often intrigued by speakers with extreme clarity and a lack of "box" sound, in the end, I would not want to give up tonal saturation to achieve this kind of sound. If someone else puts higher priority on such clarity and lack of box resonance, I can understand that AN speakers are out of the running (for fans of clarity, check out Raidho speakers--clarity with less harshness, dryness and artificial "edge" than other audiophile favorites in this camp).

As to Richard's challenge, I cannot really think of anything; the speakers I like more than the lower end AN-E cost a lot more. Also, the field is limited by his requirement for the speakers to be SET friendly (I too, am a BIG fan of low-powered tube amps, although I don't limit my preference to SET amps; for the record, I own an AN Kageki (parallel SET) and a low-powered pushpull amp that currently resides in my system). There are a few compression driver-based systems that can deliver tonal richness with more clarity and detail, but, these are quite rare, exotic, big and ugly, expensive and hard to find. There are a few non-horn drivers that also fit the bill, but these too are expensive and rare (e.g., Jensen M-10 fieldcoil used as bass/midrange, or the G.I.P. replica from Japan).

 

I don't think the point here is so much the relative strengths or weaknesses of Audio Note speakers so much as this is the Harbeth 40.2 thread.

 

Excellent post, Larry I.

 

And so you agree with Richard and his preferences. That's great. It's also great to have useful information. No one doubts that Richard could be an asset to the community. The problem is turning threads that have nothing to do with his (or yours or mine) favorite brand in to a thread about that brand. It's really that simple. We see that type of redirecting from time to time from many, but only a few do it every time and that is the crux of the issue, IMO.

 

Art,

You are correct that this thread has been redirected from its original subject, but, then again, almost everyone has deviated from the subject of the 40.2 and talked about other speakers--other brands, or other Harbeth models. I think that is understandable because there really isn't much to talk about until we get to hear the 40.2 or get some more detail about how it differs from the 40.1. If there were a rule on going off topic, this thread would have stopped after the initial posting and a few others expressing interest in the new model (I am one really interested in the new model, given how good the 40.1 sounds).

If I am permitted to go off subject, I will say that I generally agree with you that Harbeth speakers DO NOT need gobs of power to sound good. I have heard them sound good with modestly rated Shindo, Lavardin and Synthesis amps. Unless someone is exclusively wedded to only low-powered SET amps, Harbeth speakers should be suitable for a wide array of electronics. My local dealer, who carries Harbeth and Audionote, does not demonstrate the Harbeth with the Audionote and other low-powered pushpull or SET amps he carries. But, he does demonstrate them with Synthesis amps and I particularly like the 30.1s with the 40 watt Synthesis amp that utilizes 6L6 output tubes.

 

Just as an aside...I don't mind going off topic. Threads that I start on AK and other forums often wind up "long and winding". I started the longest thread going on the Rega Brio-R. It often goes just a bit off topic. I loosely redirect it but have no expectation that any thread will be strictly on topic. My nit to pick is about one individual, and I agree with you about his ability to contribute, taking every thread off topic and in the same direction (Audio Note).

Speaking of tubes and Harbeth. Did any of you read the Art Dudley's review of the SHL5+ in the most recent Stereophile. He used 25 watt per channel Shindo mono blocks and the 45 watt per channel Croft Phono integrated for his review.

 

No, I have not read that review, but I an interested. Did he compare the Harbeth with the Devore that he liked? I have a bit of an issue with Stereophile seemingly picking the very reviewer that one would predict would like the component as the actual reviewer. Once in a while they should mix things up or have more than one reviewer cover the same component so that the reader might be exposed to a difference in perspective.

 

Similar to what Jeff Day does with the previous version of the SHL5 and a 28-ish watt Leben integrated: http://jeffsplace.me/wordpress/?page_id=6656

As an aside, IMO that was the best issue of Stereophile in a long time. Lots of things I was interested in, which is getting rare with that mag.

 

He did compare it and as usual the Harbeth came up short for dynamics and punch. I love the 0/96's & 0/93's but not any more than Harbeth speakers. Different strengths for different audiences. Fortunately I like a lot of products and recognize their unique strengths even if they are not a product that I would want in my own home. Among the many speakers that I have listened to and owned, John DeVore and Alan Shaw's designs are my favorite and completely different.

 

So are these models really going up from 14 to 19K? And if so, why is that? That's a heck of a jump.

 

So much for needing "bucket loads of power", well unless one equates bucket loads with 28 watt amps. Maybe in the 40's and 50's 28 watts were a bucket load, but in this day and age when companies like McIntosh manufacture 2000 watt mono block amps ~ it makes a 28 watt'r seem more like a teaspoon load of power.

You can't please everybody, no doubt. I've never heard a DeVore that really stood out to me, most of the ones I've heard didn't work for me they sounded good, but not great. They did have a pair of O/96's at a place here in San Diego called Stereo Design that were on loan and they were sure pretty though! I couldn't take my eyes off of them