New Harbeth monitors: Sound stage depth or lack of

Re: Sound stage depth or lack of

Irony at its best. Truly a labour of love for audiophiles. Cowboy, sounds like your Harbeths just need to break in. Took my Dynaudios nearly a year.

 

Tom, If you move VTA up or down you must reset tracking force so it falls within the correct range. Don't worry too much about VTA for now but make sure tracking force is correct.

 

Cowboy,

as I understand things, you are now listening to new monitors in a new house, or at least a new room, since the fire last year...

Take some time to get used to things, and let the monitors break in, before you rush to change your system so soon...maybe some minor room treatment is all you need.

best of luck,

Steve

 

This is what I've kinda been thinkin' all along. Not only new monitors in a new house but new TT/cart, refurbished MX 110 and most of you followed the amazing job Terry DeWick did on my burned up MC 30's. I know..... patience is a virtue. I still want to try Steve's deal though. Wonder if that will work with the MX 110 set on MONO (L+R) or do I need a Mono recording???? Tom

 

Re: Sound stage depth or lack of

This is very interesting. Will this method work for non-Harbeth speakers?

 

Steve,
Great post about speaker setup and soundstage/imaging (and thank Rob for pointing out this thread). I own active speakers (ATC 150's) that have nothing but XLR inputs, not speaker binding posts (amp packs are internal). My Modwright SWl 9.0 SE inverts phase (I know it's random pot luck to tell, anway, that's another discussion) so I just ordered, for giggles, a couple of HOSA cross phase adapters that cross pin 2 with pin 3. I assume if I put an adapter on only one speaker input, I'm doing the same thing you recommended above?

Thx
Ted

 

Correct. You could, of course, just buy an installation/set-up CD that has the in-phase and out-of-phase speech that Steve described. Reference Recordings, for one, makes such a disc. No need to swap cables in that case. I'm sure others can list some alternatives to the Reference CD, since I recall it's a bit pricey.

 

Re: Sound stage depth or lack of

This weekend I got finally got the time to work with this. The MX 110 has a 0/180 phase switch so I didn't have to change the speaker leads. I had a 1964 copy of JFK speeches that I used. I did just as Steve said and moved the speakers till I got the voice as far out to the sides as I could. Then put on John Hartford's "Aereo Plain" and hit the phase switch. Bam. The sound stage was so much wider...but that wasn't all. The individual instruments were so much more defined on the stage that I could close my eyes and point to them. Dobro over there, banjo here, fiddle over there. AMAZING!!! And the depth (which actually started this thread) was there in layers. And, there was so much more bass now that it was kinda too much. I had been using the "loudness" before, no need to now. As I listened more, sometimes the fiddle would sound kinda harsh. I remembered some of my earlier learning from this forum and changed out the RCA clear top 12AU7's to a pair of Mullards. BINGO!!!! That was it. The sound I had been expecting all along when I got this new gear. Vocals were erie. The sound just floated in the room. I just sat there and giggled. The Harbeth's and the MC 30's make an unbelievable team. Thanks from one happy buckaroo, Tom

 

But Cowboy, how did you do the out-of-phase thing? A 0/180 switch simply sends BOTH speakers into an absolute phase change, i.e changing the leads on BOTH speakers (or an invert polarity switch concept). Steve's instructions were to go out-of-phase, which requires only one speaker to be 180 out of the other one. How did going 180 allow you to do the far left, far right voice test?

 

I'm curious to hear from anyone who has tried this technique. The more I read about speaker placement, the more I realize how critical it is to getting the most out of one's speakers and one's room. But having just tried the "optimum placement" technique described above, I'm a bit puzzled by how to properly relate out of phase sounds to better speaker placement.

Thanks for any help or suggestions.

 

I get a holographic soundstage with plenty of depth with Naim equipment and Harbeth C7. The soundstage is huge. It's not the speaker.

Glad you got the help you needed Cowboy. Looks like a happy ending!

 

This thread offers a little explanation and an easy way to get it happening using the stereo Waterloo Sunset.

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threa...ck-and-fix-your-stereo-system-with-it.320990/

 

If you are getting flat unidimensional sound it is ANYTHING but the Harbeths. They are sublime speakers.

Post a pic of your room and maybe some folks can see any potential issues. It seems you have a nice system.

 

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I doubt you would be considered a problem, but possibly another satisfied customer.

 

stereo imaging and soundstage is an illusion, it only exists in your brain as a construct. Those who hear most accurately will probably perceive pressurized air molecules as coming from two distinct boxes, nothing more! However, you can fool yourself and proper set up helps. The other thing that may help is going out and hearing live music particularly classical and jazz in nice halls if you seat yourself in certain places. That will give you more data to feed the construct.

 

I think the last response to this thread before yesterday was in 2006... just saying, the OP might not be answering.

 

Penny for penny the Harbeths are cheaper to buy in the US than the UK!!!
That said, saw a pair of second hand 40's for sale recently, mega price even with a quite a few years on them.

 

Speaker depth is strange a phenomenem
I was listening to a Decca mono ,Waltons Facade,Peter Pears in foreground reciting poetry,band in distant ambient background, riffing away.
Quite magical depth factor
Brain DSP working overtime.
Must be evolutionary

 

True. Still interesting and relevant, though for those of us who missed it the first time around.

 

Yeah. And I wasn't even a member of the forum that far back!

 

Absolutely. The out-of-phase tip is fantastic! Good 'ol Steve

 

I think the last response to this thread before yesterday was in 2006... just saying, the OP might not be answering.
True. Still interesting and relevant, though for those of us who missed it the first time around.


isn't this why forums are so good? i never checked the dates at all on this post and here i am reading great and relevant comments

 

I've heard various Harbeth's (small and larger)in a number of different situations and always thought them exceptional. I found the original OP's issue to be curious as I always thought they imaged unusually well. It then occurred to me that generally when I've heard them it was with recordings that had plenty of everything to highlight their potential. When the OP commented that he had very good soundstage on some recordings and not on others I thought "par for the course" as the majority of recordings don't have all that much depth to them, especially rock studio efforts and the like.