New Harbeth Super HL5 Plus

Hi folks.

Any thoughts on the new version of this speaker?

Is this a significant upgrade? What has changed?

Thanks!

 

From what I've seen so far, the bass unit has been changed from a Radial to an almost identical Radial 2. I don't think there'll be a significant difference in sound or performance but from the company's point of view, it makes sense financially to eliminate the duplication of parts in the speaker range. At the same time, they've tweaked the crossover, making more use of software analysis. Again, unless anyone thinks there was anything wrong with the first crossover, it's hard to see how this will produce an audible improvement but I guess they had to do something to justify the rebranding and (possibly) higher price tag.

I think they should have done something more radical eg getting rid of that silly super tweeter which was only ever a marketing gimmick and using the space for a drive unit that actually does something useful!

All just IMHO of course.

 

question...
can a Naim Nait 5i "move" such speekers ?

 

You bet. Harbeth present a very easy load for amps.
Do a search on these forums, and over at the Harbeth User Group, there is a lot of info out there on this.

 

That 'marketing gimmick' super-tweeter goes all the way back to the Spendor BC/1, a design that is almost 50 years old.

 

I dunno. I always thought that silly super tweeter sounded pretty good
Also, according to Alan Shaw, it's one of their top sellers, so I doubt they'd do anything to jeopardize the sound of it.
Because they implemented Radial2, Shaw said the crossover needed to be adjusted to compensate for the response change.
Nothing major, just an update from everything I've read.
Here's the Harbeth thread.

 

My 5i/C7 combo really sang. Wish I still had.

 

Fair enough - in that case, it's a much older fad than I thought! I don't know what the frequency response of the super tweeter is but my understanding is that it emits frequencies that are inaudible to the human ear (above 20kHz) and so I can't see the point of it. I know some people think that in some way it's possible to sense these frequencies and they will see the super tweeter as a benefit but my own personal preference would be to dispense with it and use the space for a unit that does some useful work in the audible range instead. As it is, the whole of the audible frequency spectrum from 20Hz to 20kHz is being handled by just two units per cabinet when it could so easily be three.

 

I can only go by my experiences - at the last California Audio Show there was a demonstration of the EnigmaAcoustics Sopranino super-tweeter paired with Magico S5s and the demonstrator played quite a few different tracks and we listened back and forth many times. The person running the audition was unfazed by requests to flip back to the original and then engage the super-tweeters, and flip back again.

It was a very convincing demo as far as I was concerned - the top end improved significantly when the Sopranino was connected. Now these are very expensive super-tweeters and have a number of unique features, and perhaps they work better than other implementations of the architecture - and maybe they chose the Magico speakers because they knew that the combination worked really well. But it was fascinating.

http://www.audiorevelation.com/cre/...u1kqe8e1li3i787t7e3?cPath=29&products_id=1429

 

Oh my yes...

 

What a very tasty setup you are showing us. Looks like a Kondo Ongaku and perhaps a Nottingham record player but I don't know the speakers. We can see the Sopranino on top. Sweet.

 

A friend on Flickr. He has exquisite taste.

 

I just took a quick look at the specification for the Sopranino and it appears to have a frequency response of 8Hz to 40kHz so it certainly would be making an audible difference in the normal hearing range - it's a lot more than just a supertweeter, apparently.

I wonder if anyone makes a standalone supertweeter that only emits frequencies of 20kHz plus? There's a very simple test I'd love to do - connect the supertweeters without any main speakers, have someone switch the music on and off and see if it's possible to tell when the the supertweeters are operating!

 

That'd be a very interesting test indeed.

 

The speakers look like Horning Agathons.

 

OK, thanks.

 

Oooo, Nottingham Dais, yum. (I have its shorter but wider sibling.)

 

Yup. My friend wrote me back. They are Hørning Hybrid Agathon Ultimates. I read up on them here. Pretty amazing sound and design.

 

http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/munich-the-little-brand-that-could/

Harbeth is a bastion of British understatement. Like every UK reviewer, I can’t get a review sample for love nor money from the brand, because the potential for increased local sales in the UK would overfill the company’s already brimming over order books in other parts of the world. Even if I bought a pair (and, believe me, it’s tempting) I couldn’t tell you how much I like them for fear of raising the profile too high in the home country. However, those few who are members of the select Harbeth club can nod quietly to themselves that they are part of an elite. Not ‘elite’ in the snobby ‘elitist’ manner it has come to be considered, but like the unassuming special forces of audio, only without the lethal force component.

So why all the praise for a brand I can’t get through my usual channels? Because they did that rare thing. They demonstrated the only samples of a product by helping out someone else. They paid it forward. The Harbeth stand had a loudspeaker on show, but the demonstration of the new Super HL5 plus was in the REL room, showing just how a subwoofer can sound.

That kind of care and attention is rare in audio. Hell, it’s rare anywhere. Yes, it gives a company two places where it can make its presence felt, but this is unheard of in most companies. But not Harbeth. I am reminded of the time after the Japanese tsunami (one of Harbeth’s biggest markets), where the Japanese distributor was so troubled by his clients being put out by damaged loudspeakers that he undertook a care programme beyond the call of duty.

There’s a lack of BS here. Just good, understated audio, made and sold by good, understated people. Sometimes, I can still be proud to be British!

 

I met Alan Shaw at a promotional event for the new Super HL5 Plus today. In his online persona he sometimes seems to me to come over as a little bit prickly and overbearing but in the flesh, he turns out to be nothing like that at all. Maybe he was on his best behaviour but he came across as a lovely guy, very friendly and approachable, more diffident than pompous, open to ideas and never talking down to those with only a fraction of his immense knowledge of loudspeaker design. It was quite funny watching him listening to his own speakers - far from looking self-satisfied, he seemed to be constantly analysing the sound, anxiously listening for blemishes or any area at all where it might be possible to wring a slight further improvement out of them.

In conversation, he said 90 per cent of the difference with the Plus model was the crossover. He said it wasn't just a resistor or two - it was a complete re-working, and the new crossover was unrecognisable from the one that had gone before. I asked if it would really make much difference to someone like me who was quite sceptical about the audibility of tiny differences, but he said if you put the old and new speakers side-by-side, he reckoned even I would be able to tell the difference within two minutes. He said the main differences were that the new crossover was flatter (in frequency response) and that the new speakers had more air and presence.

The new speakers were on demo but not alongside the old ones so it was not possible to put me to the test!

I asked him about upgrade paths for those with the old speakers and he surprised me by saying the old speakers were still in production for those who didn't want to make the leap to the new ones. (Or who couldn't afford them - more on that in a moment.) He said they couldn't offer an upgrade kit because of, I don't know, I got lost in the jargon here but some kind of product approval thing. They might, just might, offer an upgrade service at the factory for those who physically brought their speakers in a car but that would be well into the future because they were too busy making the new speakers at the moment.

Another thing that emerged was that even after the Munich show he had continued to refine the new crossover in his continual search for perfection. He's obviously a guy for whom good enough is just not good enough.

On price, I think I'm right in saying that the new speakers are retailing in the basic finish at £3,279. Since the old ones were I think £2,729 , that's a 20 per cent price hike and I would guess that applies to the dollar price as well. As Alan happily conceded, some people might actually prefer the sound of the old design. So, take your pick - an extra £550 for more air and presence and another step nearer perfection, or save your money and settle for the tried and tested.

 

Look at those tubes

 

Good to know he is not like his "online persona" because that one needs improvement.

 

That price jump is hard to swallow. Almost $1,000 CAN.

 

It's interesting that the old model is continuing. Does sound if Mr Shaw is not entirely confident of the overall improvement. Having heard the old model on a number of occasions I would be looking for some added bass weight in the new version. The midrange was already as open and airy as I've heard in the first place. Unfortunately manufacturers use model upgrades to introduce price increases absorbing increased historical costs and building in future insurance. I think they have been same price for some years. Until recently Harbeth weren't even interested in the UK market. They have few dealers and don't advertise. Main market I understand is the far east were they ship container loads against the few sold in the UK. Anyway most people here appear to want tall skinny speakers that don't take up space. Harbeth was a well kept secret in the UK until forums started enthusing about them.

 

Really?
What makes you say Shaw is not entirely confident?
Everything I've read/heard online that he has written, and personally from those who have spoken with him recently in the UK at various SHL5+ demo events in London specifically, has him very enthused about the 5+.
As far as the older version still being produced, I believe Shaw said they are building the standard SHL5 until those parts are out of stock for the production run.
Also, AFAIK, Shaw was still tweaking the prototype crossovers before they went into production as late as two weeks ago.
He's nothing if not a perfectionist.
You can follow the Harbeth thread on the SHL5+ here.
I'm surprised you thought the SHL5 lacked in bass... in any system I've heard it played in, bass was never an issue.
Cheers
–R