Got a reply from the sole Canadian dealer for LM. Looks like TI forwarded my email to them. They are fast! Good to know there's at least one dealer.
Finally got a reply about the warranty. In case it helps anybody else in the future... The warranty is only transferable if the product is bought from an authorized dealer and the 2nd party lives in the same country. Therefore, if I were to buy a used unit from the US and I run into an issue, I'd have zero support. A shame considering I'm guessing it'd cost an extra 2-3K for me to buy it from the dealer outright than it would be for me to buy a used one.
Assuming you have a qualified tech locally (I assume you do in a city the size of Toronto), you could get the amp repaired a lot of times for the amount you would save buying used. And its not like Line Magnetic amps are known for having a lot of issues. Plus they are point-to-point wired, which should make it easy to work on for a third party tech. So, even though the response you got may have been disappointing, I don't necessarily see it as a game changer as far as your options are concerned.
Just got word the price for the 508IA is 5500$ CDN. I could probably bargain them down to 5K. A used one from the US at $3500 would come to 4350$. With taxes, the difference comes to 735$ more if I buy new here. If I can't bargain them down, I might as well get a used one regardless as the price difference would be 1315$. Truthfully, this is a last-amp-in-this-lifetime purchase for me which is why I want to go 10x higher, price-wise, than my current amp.
My prediction is you'll have this amp within a couple weeks, not the one to two years you initially estimated. I know how this hobby works
Yeah, that's 1-2 years of not being in musical bliss. Plus anything can happen in 1-2 years..knock on wood.
I know how our finances are so I hope you're not as disappointed about being wrong as I am that I won't be able to prove you right.
It's all about priorities. I think some people think food is way more important than it actually is...
One thing I am wondering about is whether an amp would benefit tonally from running on a 220V line versus a 120V line, assuming they'd have the appropriate power transformer in each case.
Not exactly what I'm asking. Found an ad from somebody selling a 220V one and said he heard both and thought a small edge in imaging was given to the 220V model, though he also mentioned it could be due to model deviation (i.e. every model sounding a little bit different). Just wondering if electronically-speaking there is a tonal advantage to feeding more power to tube amps. At the same time, I notice the cycle is set to 50 hertz instead of 60 so that might play a negative part as well. I'm merely the curious type and figured if anybody would know either in theory or practice, it would be somebody here.
I'm sure the improvement in imaging is from the paying $1500 from catty link and trying to flip for a tidy profit.
Possible it was all BS but I am curious from a technical perspective because all this stuff (hertz, volts, amps, etc) is Greek to me.
With regards to warranty - it is different in different countries sometimes - I had a 3 year warranty with my LM 219IA. The dealer added to LM's warranty but my dealer was King Ip of now KingKo audio and he repaired all the Line Magnetic products for years. Speaking of the KingKo KA101 ($825) - I don't miss my 219IA at all which has surprised me. Connect a good preamp up to the KA101 and well it;s a creative way to get more sound quality for a lower price via separates. The Achilles heel of most tube integrated amps appears to me to be the preamp stage. You might want to look at what you can get in terms of separates from LM before you make the final decision. The LM Foshan plant may have some interesting offerings. Or even a second hand Shindo or AN preamp to go with the LM power amp?? You can do more with $5k than you might think.
Thanks for taking the time to write. Very appreciated and I respect your experience. Everything I've read indicated the 508IA is the right amp for me. My research among users of this amp also suggests that while the 508IA amp is utterly fantastic that an LM preamp is not necessarily the greatest marriage and that other brands provide an optimal match, tone-wise. That isn;t really something I'm looking into at the moment as I won't even have the funds to buy a 508IA for a long while. Perhaps a preamp would push my future 508IA into even more pleasing territory but that is something to explore possibly in 2020.
Some great information in these last couple of pages. I'm having trouble deciding if I like the sound more with my AMR DP777SE as preamp or using the 508 as an integrated. The sound with AMR as pre is leaner, cleaner and more easy on the ears, so it suits jazz and vocal music just beautifully. Even with NFB on 1 it lacks some dynamics, slam and oomph though, so for rock and metal I prefer using the built in pre. Interesting stuff about the high gain from the Tung Sol 6SL7. Will definitely try something else for the input tube. I have the Psvane WE 300B. While I haven't heard my amp with any other 300B's it sounds absolutely sublime. I bought a used First Watt J2 out of curiosity, and it was listening fatigue galore compared to my dear 508. Even with my lean AMR as pre.
I too had been keeping an eye on this one and another one on USA'mart (just real casual-like - you guys know how it is), but appears they are both sold. I know this issue was raised earlier in the thread, but as a former owner of the LM218ia, LM518ia and Leben CS300xs, and an eternally potential future owner of amps like the 508ia, I'd be curious to hear from those who've lived with the 508 about the amp's sonic character. There does seem to be a preponderance of these amps not only for sale, but that are being sold by their second or third owners. I'm wondering if this is a result of a lot of folks jumping on the 508 when it initially became available and then moving on (as most of us invariably do), or if the glare/fatigue that some folks have mentioned here, or some other sonic issue, is also driving or partially driving what *seems to be* short ownership terms. I say "seems to be" with the huge caveat that this could be merely a matter of my perception or pure chance. But my gut tells me a greater than average number of folks have owned the 508ia and moved on. I ask not only b/c I've been intrigued by the 508ia, but also because I found no faults at all with the 518ia driving a range of speakers - from Harbeth C7s to Tekton Lore Refs to Sterling Broadcast LS3/5a to big Altecs. It seems there are more folks struggling to get the 508 dialed in than I recall seeing in regards to the 518 and 219. The 518 was the first amp I owned that I would have been happy to keep permanently. And most who've auditioned both say they prefer the 508ia to the 518ia by a significant margin. Same with the 219. What do you all think? Is it all in my head or is there something that makes the 508ia harder to live with long term?
I haven't heard the 508, so I can't speak to the sound differences between the two. But I agree with you about the 518 being a very special amp. I look at the specs of the two amps, and the two things that pop into my head are that the power output from the 508 is attractive. And that I really like the tube complement of the 518 a lot. I wonder if the 508 is somehow a more exciting listen up front, when done in a back-to-back comparison (plus the extra power would help with some speakers), but somehow the 518 is more pleasing over the long haul? Sometimes my initial reaction to two things (like when doing tube comparisons) is not the same opinion I have once I have lived with both for a period of time. This isn't meant to question anybody's preferences or purchases. It is just me thinking out loud, like Baaronj was. Is there anybody out there (@GoldprintAudio perhaps?) that has lived with both of these amps over a longer period of time and can comment?
There have been a number of opinions mentioned in this thread alone. I suggest starting from the first page and scanning the whole thread for those who've auditioned at least the 508IA with others. Personally, I'm not surprised by people selling them for a couple of reasons. Firstly, most gearheads suffer from "grass is always greener" syndrome. For a year or two, they'll love and praise whatever they purchase until they suddenly wonder if they can squeeze more out of it. The tube-rolling starts and after a while, they're quite happy again. Then, they supposedly hit their respective combination's peak and are left wondering what superior alternatives are out there. More time passes and now, they've got some more money saved up for gear. Hey, wait a minute. If I sell the LM and combine my saved funds, I can get product X which is supposedly 10x better according to (paid) reviewers (getting it for free) and/or overly enthusiastic users who are still in the honeymoon phase. So they do and the cycle repeats itself. Although it happens less with Mac gear, it still does occasionally. But in my experience, Mac gear is more of a religious type of ownership where the person tries to get more Mac gear and then doesn't let go of it and sticks with it for many many years, sometimes until the end. Not so with most other brands, though. I wouldn't pay too much attention to the fact that there are some 508IAs for sale from people who bought them. As somebody pointed out a couple of times to me lately, some are merely being flipped and are the 220V version. If you concentrate on the 120V version, there aren't too many for sale. But even if there are, it could be for any amount of reasons. The person needs the money to pay bills, doesn't want to deal with tubes/heat any longer and is going back to SS, is downsizing his stable of gear, his tastes changed and wants something, or simply loves selling/buying gear which a lot of people like doing. Just typing outloud.
This! And unfortunately what I’ve further found for me is that in “comparison mode” I have to be very careful and calculated because the initial reaction and the long term reality are usually very different. Fatiguing stuff usually sounds good at first. Then I throw on some later Coltrane or some screeching guitars and things become more apparent.
As a quick replay.....to sum it up, both of these amps are quite good. If you need the power for your particular speakers, grab the 508....if you don't, the 518 is a fantastic choice (as some of you know). In shoot outs here, I've not had a customer pick the 518 over the 508 yet....the 508 has won every time so far. The biggest spot the 508 has the advantage to me is in the low end, with bass control and more defined lows. But like I mentioned, if you don't need the extra power, the 518 is a beautiful amp. I also think the 518 is a little easier (cheaper) to re-tube with higher end tube options. As to 508's popping up for sale, if you look at the ad's in the past year the 508 has been available, there are actually really the same number of 508s listed as 518's. So I don't really consider that an abundance. I also have a strong feeling you are seeing guys grabbing this amp, looking at the 48 watts per channel, and believing (hoping?) that it can easily drive their 4ohm 85 db speakers, when in reality, it still also needs a fairly efficient speaker as well.
All true. My main interest is not so much in people who have auditioned both amps, just perhaps the longer-term experience. Tough to find that type of feedback though since it is rare for somebody to actually own both the 518 and the 508 at the same time. It would be really cool if Herb Reichert were to review the 508 at some point, since he has lived with the 518 for so long as has written a lot about it. In fact, he brought it up again in the recent issue of Stereophile in his review of a Pass Labs amp.
Ironically, I'll be buying the 508IA eventually sight unseen and unheard. The room and speakers won't be mine so the comparisons and auditions will be rather a moot point. The fact the brand and these models in particular have had so much good press and so many glowing reviews from users here and elsewhere tells me that this is the amp for me. That and the fact it's a SET design with power to spare and the addition of the NFB switch all sounds lovely to me. Also, if I wanted to hear one anyway, I'd have to travel to Quebec, another province. That's about a 14-16h trip. So to take all that time, gas, effort, to listen to something completely out of context won't help me much. Another amp might sound superior in that room with those speakers but won't ever sound better in my room with my speakers and whichever other speakers I buy in the future. Again, out of context listening is something which won't help me much.
Out-of-context listening is limited in its usefulness, I agree. But if that is my only option, I still like to take advantage of it. I bought my 518 sight unseen and unheard as well. It just might be the best audio purchase I have ever made.
