New Mono: Trying To Decide Between Trying Ortofon Quintet and 2M SE

I have a 2nd tonearm wand on my standard JMW9 tonearm (effective mass 7.4gms and no damping). The potential matching is limited due to the arm's physical traits.

My phono stage, the Art Audio Vinyl One, can easily handle a low-output moving coil, or a moving magnet through the MM stage.

I have had a Grado ME+ and it sounded great, particularly when I bought a Grado Black stereo stylus to put in it. But the cartridge had its limitations. I tried a wood-body Grado and it wasn't the best match with the arm. I tried a Benz ACE and it was boooooring. Disappointing since I like the Benz wood-body stereo I have quite a bit.

I'd like to try an Ortofon as an option, without going all the way up to a Cadenza Mono (which I'm guessing I would like a lot). My fear is that the Quintet Mono, which is partly based on the Quintet Blue stereo, would also sound boring. Lean, linear, capable of producing soundstage and whatnot, but not sound very musically or emotionally engrossing. My limited experience is that moving magnet or moving iron cartridges sound meatier when it comes to lower priced cartridges compared to moving coil.

The US distributor of Ortofon describes the Quintet Mono as having moderate dynamics, sounding more linear and having a blacker background than the 2M SE. He thinks that imaging and soundstaging is more accurate with the Quintet.

He describes the 2M SE as being "more insightful" and quicker than the Quintet (and he says that moving magnet cartridges tend to be faster than moving coil equivalents, but this is opposite to what I had been used to thinking). He thinks that due to being a high-output cartridge, there's less headroom than the Quintet. The 2M SE is less linear due to more uneven resonance in moving magnet designs.

I couldn't really get anything other than more audiophile type of comparisons out of him. I'm more interested in which one renders music more interestingly, more compellingly. I had a Zephyr in my system to try. I found it really quick and taut, but ultimately I thought it lacked heart.

Any thoughts which might be provoked on this subject, and which cartridge might be a better bet?

 

I'm also interested in a mono cartridge. I've got the Ortofon Cadenza Black and 2M Black, but I want to put a mono cartridge on a separate turntable. I've been led to believe that the Quintet is a true mono based on the design. So when you find out more, please post it here.

 

Can you afford a Cadenza Mono?

Here's part of the deal with the 2M SE Mono, which I bought. I'll say, to start, that I have about 12 hours on it. The distributor is suggesting that I put about 80-100 hours on it before I really judge. Many who have an Ortofon, which you have two, say about 50 before it's starts to break in. It started off as really bright. It's a bit less so now, but it still lacks the bottom end heft or bloom that I hope it will have. There's a fair bit of harmonic sophistication going on, and the cartridge is quite quick. It does lack oomph at the moment, though.

As a moving iron/magnet type of cartridge, I can tell it's picking up more surface noise than previous mono cartridges. It's not as delicate as a moving coil, but it has more meat on it, in its price range, than a moving coil typically has. There's more energy going on, and that might have to do with it being a better moving magnet design rather than a lower end moving coil.

Their moving coil cartridges are true mono designs, with the coil geometry turned 45 degrees. They're unable to physically do that with a moving magnet design, but they said that they have come up with a proprietary design which essentially does the same thing, or at least comes really close. But the distributor admits that the Quintet Mono will be quieter.

I have spoken to a few Ortofon retailers about the different series of cartridges. None of the three I spoke to are all that keen on the lower end Quintets. They only spoke well of the Black. They seem to love the 2M series, in every iteration, though none had heard the 2M SE Mono, as it is exclusively available through the distributor and not available to dealers. They all like the Cadenza series as well. So lukewarm feedback on the Quintet, including the Quintet Mono. It might be a perfect fit for you. I get a sense that the 2M SE Mono will give you more of a sense of action and purpose than the Quintet. It just may never have the delicacy of a moving coil, nor the great sense of dynamics that the best moving coils will render, but you need to spend a lot to get there.

As I continue to break the 2M SE Mono in, I'll report back.

 

I don't have enough mono records to justify the expense of the spendy Cadenza mono. I play my mono records with the Cadenza Black, they sound great to me. But I've been told that a true mono cartridge has a richer sound on "older" mono records. I'm not even sure I need a mono cartridge, to be frank, since most of the mono records I want to play are late-1950s to mid-1960s jazz and rock & roll lps, and a few modern reissues.

From what I understand, there is quite a bit of technical stuff going on with lp groove design at that time. I am under the impression that in and about the early 1960s, a stereo cartridge is quite acceptable on playback, given changes in groove design. Further, I've been led to believe that modern mono records. such as those pressed by Music Matters or Sundazed, absolutely sound terrific on a modern stereo cartridge. On the other hand, I may be out to lunch on this stuff.

But what I get from you note is that if I do elect to secure a mono cartridge, strongly consider the 2M. That saves me money too. Thank you.

 

Sure, the 2M would probably be fine. I just looking for a more sophisticated cartridge that would approach the quality of my Benz stereo cartridge. You're not going to get as sophisticated a harmonic presentation. The stylus is quite a bit more sophisticated, and as a result will track better, particularly near the end of each side.

I think you get a more solid presentation with a mono cartridge (which can largely be obtained with a mono switch in your amp, or a Y-cable, and you might be a great candidate for the latter). A true mono design is also designed to pick up less vertically induced data. In the case of playing a record, that means less auditory display of ticks and pops, scratches, and dust.

 

My C-J line stage does not have a mono switch. Also, I've read somewhere on the internets (sic, in honor of GWB, so it must be true, right?) that the Y-cable creates some issue in true mono reproduction or some other interface problem. The fact that I've been thinking about it so long and not doing anything is telling. Thank you though...

 

Creates trouble?? Only if you put the Y-cable in-between the cartridge and a phono preamp. It will alter the resistance of the cartridge signal. You can put a cable between a phono preamp and the regular preamp, as by that stage, the signal is strong enough. I'm not aware of any other issues, myself.

 

You may have saved me some money! Thanks.

Curious, do you use StillPoints?

 

No. Not yet, anyway. They intrigue me. I have an assortment of other tweaks, including cork/rubber sandwiches from Mapleshade.

 

I am considering either the Ortofon 2m mono (not the SE) or the Quintet mono MC for my VPI Classic 3. I have MM and MC capability.

Don't want to spend any more than what these cost (SE is about $350 and the Quintet is about $520.

Has anyone heard both of these mono cartridges?

 

I considered the Ortofons, alongside lots of other designs, in the end I decided to go for a proper mono and get a Miyajima, they have a selection of dedicated mono designs and offer a choice of 0.7 and 1 mil styli to suit both older and later microgroove mono pressings.

 

What are your musical tastes? The 2M is likely to sound more chunky and energetic, but greatly lacking in inner detail. The Quintet is going to be more detailed, quieter (blacker backgrounds), more nuanced, sound a bit leaner, but rock less. If you listen to classical, folk, or jazz, you'll probably appreciate the Quintet better. If you like rock, you'll like the 2M better.

Another factor is if you have a stereo cartridge. Is it a good moving coil? If so, you'll appreciate more of what you're missing with the 2M. If your stereo cartridge is a moving magnet, then there's less of a step down with the 2M, and you may miss the authority of the Quintet compared to a top-notch moving coil. For many, moving coil cartridges that combine all the qualities you want in a cartridge start at about $1000, so you're making a compromise with either of the budget cartridges.

But I can tell you that, as an owner of a Benz wood body medium output moving coil, even the 2M Mono SE is too much of a step down for my ears. I probably would have been better off with the less expensive Quintet Mono.

 

The Ortofon moving coil cartridges are true mono designs. Their electrical design leaves them immune to vertical movement. The moving magnet designs are wired for mono. The latter are supposed to reduce vertically induced sound, but I can tell you that it only reduces the vertical sound a bit and not a lot.

 

I couldn't find any absolute statement from Ortofon that they are true mono and not just modded stereo bodies with an appropriate mono stylus, if you can show me a link to something that absolutely confirms the Ortofons are true monos with no vertical modulation I'd be very interested.

 

Interestingly, there is no information on the site right now that distinguishes the 2 designs. But the US distributor told me that the moving coil's engine as pivoted at the 45 degree angle allowing complete isolation of the vertical signal. With regard to the moving magnet, they are unable to do so, but came up with a proprietary wiring design which allowed them to get almost the same effect. I say almost, because he acknowledged that the moving coil cartridges are better at eliminating surface ticks and pops.

 

You'd think that if they are true mono designs they would be making a point of advertising the fact, anyway I did my best to find out and reached the conclusion that the Ortofons aren't quite what they claim, or rather don't claim, but allow people to assume, whereas the Miyjimas are dedicated mono designs from the ground up, a fact they happily publicise. I only just got my Miyajima and haven't even mounted it, but I have lined up a tasty selection of late fifties mono LPs and as soon as I can find time I will be putting it through it paces, the biggest potential problem is that if it sounds too good I may have to start saving for a 0.7 cart to get the best from later mono pressings.

 

The Ortofon website states this. Is there a reason to doubt that?

EDIT: Add link

Ortofon true Mono cartridges range »

 

From the site:

A True Mono from Ortofon
It features Nude Elliptical r/R 8/18µm stylus that is a good solution for playing mono microgroove vinyl records. The Quintet Mono will track perfectly through even worn and damaged records and ensure the surface noise control.

Quintet Mono uses a strapped output to deliver the same output signal from both sets of pole pins. This effectively eliminates the need for mono-specific equipment, making it possible to enjoy true mono reproduction on any stereo playback system.

 

It's not exactly the same as a cartridge that only picks up horizontal signals. If anyone is interested in more detail, I'd contact Ortofon or the distributor for clarification.

 

Thanks for the information. I have a Dynavector XX2 MC cartridge for stereo. Mono Quintet would probably make more sense for me.

 

The Miyajimas are terrific mono cartridges, but they're not great trackers, and you need a medium to high mass arm for them. They also won't give you the inner detail of, say, an Ortofon Cadenza, but they are so juicy.

 

You would not likely be happy with the 2M.

 

Yeah, that's not a true mono design, it still picks up the vertical signal, so really it probably won't be much different from using a mono button on your amp.

 

As far as I can tell they are all over $1K also.

Does one really have to pay this much for a "true" mono cartridge? Still not sure why Ortofon is not considered "true" when they state it on their site - or are they being cute with words??

 

They are being "cute" yes.