New Rega P6 help

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by rainsoothe, Dec 14, 2017.

  1. rainsoothe

    rainsoothe New Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Romania
    Hey all, long-time lurker, first-time poster here. So I recieved my new Rega Planar 6 a couple of weeks ago, and I've had some issues with it. This forum seems to have very knowledgeable Rega owners here, so maybe you could help with some stuff.

    First of all, I'm very sensitive to pitch variation. Prior to the Rega I owned a Pioneer PLX1000, and I had it serviced because of pitch instability (confirmed by the strobe dots moving forward and backward), and all motor parts got replaced. It did help a bit, but pitch was still unstable. So i decided to "upgrade" to a belt-drive - but pitch stability is not my only concern, which is why I didn't go for the new Technics SL1200 GR.

    So I was unpleasantly surprised to hear a pretty bothersome pitch stability with the new P6, which comes with the Neo PSU, white belt and alluminium sub-platter. I have no strobe or test-tone discs, so the only way I could check was to use an Android app - RPMeter. On every rotation, speed varies between 33.4 and 33.6. I don't mind the fact that it's running fast, but the variation is nagging me pretty badly.

    Reading around, I tried the "free" sollutions (I bought the tt from a dealer in another country, so going to the dealer's is not an option, and sending stuff back is expensive, so I want to exhaust all the free fixes first). The first one I tried was leaving the Rega to spin over-night, maybe the fluid in the bearing got jiggled during transportation/vertical storage of the turntable package. The next morning, surprise-surprise: the Neo PSU was dead. So I phoned the dealer, and they said the wall-wart was at fault and they would send me a new one. I also enquired about the speed variation, and they said it's within specs!!!

    Took the wall-wart to an electronics engineer friend of mine, and indeed, the fuse was blown. He said that maybe the motor was soliciting it too much, replaced the fuse, and said it would pop again. I'm testing that right now.

    But 0.2 RPM variation? Isn't that like 0.6% wow? Does this happen with Rega turntables? And is it within spec? Can it be the alluminum sub-platter/belt combination? Or even the motor? I mean the sound is great, but... can I do anything to alleviate this? Could the Rega sub-platter be THAT much worse than, say, a GT sub-platter? (which is hard for me to get a hold of, since I live in the EU, and I have exhausted my budget for hi-fi for the time-being)

    The TT has something like 20 hours on it, it's leveled propperly and there is zero visible sub-platter or platter wobble.

    Thank you.
     
  2. russk

    russk Forum Resident

    Location:
    Syracuse NY
    Take it back and get the Technics. Belt drives will always have a bit more pitch instability compare to a good direct drive. I think the wow and flutter spec for the RP6 was anywhere between 0.4% and 0.7% depending on where you read the results. The spec for the PX1000 and AT tables is 1%. I have a pretty decent RP6 that doesn't run to fast and it's pitch stability doesn't bother me but when I upgrade it will either be to a 1200G or a Garrard.
     
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  3. patient_ot

    patient_ot Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    I think VinylEngine.com has some free printable strobe discs. You will need to make sure they are printed to scale.
     
  4. 5-String

    5-String Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sunshine State
    This might not be what most people want to hear but...are your records off-center?
    A lot of listeners with pitch sensitivities blame their turntables for pitch variations without considering that the problem might be with the records.
    I play records for 30 years and 90% if not more of the records I have seen are in some degree eccentric.
    It doesn't bother most people because most audiophiles are tone deaf anyways but if you are sensitive to pitch variations, there is no much you can do, it's part of the analogue game.
     
  5. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Uppsala Sweden
    That speed variation if your phone app is correct is not within Rega tolerance for the new P3 and 6 tables. The limits are -0.2% as a lower bound and +0.5% as an upper bound, that is 33,266 rpm to 33.500 rpm variation in speed tolerances. You may be able to send it back if you really wanted to but if wow and flutter is really disturbing to you then I may well recommend a direct drive design. Its often frowned upon but at these price ranges the direct drives can get much more accurate when it comes to speed.
     
  6. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Uppsala Sweden
    Inaccurate, as my post above states the allowed speed inaccuracy for the P3 and 6 is only -0.2 to +0.5 speed variation. If its more than that you can easily send it back Im sure.
     
  7. Erocka2000

    Erocka2000 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY, USA
    Where are you placing your phone on the turntable when using the RPM app? When I check mine, I stick my phone to an old 45 rpm adapter via blu-tak and then put it on the spindle so the phone is centered over the platter while spinning. This method seems to be a little more accurate compared to just lying the phone somewhere on the platter.
     
    dbsea and Leonthepro like this.
  8. Davey

    Davey very clever with maracas

    Location:
    SF Bay Area, USA
    Speed variation and wow & flutter are not quite the same measurement, but I'm curious where you got any numbers since I don't think Rega publishes them, do they?
     
  9. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Uppsala Sweden
    Sorry, I corrected that mistake, the wow and flutter allowance they have is 0.3% for the P3 and 6. I have not seen any posted numbers per say, but I believe that if you email them or become a Rega detective you may find a segment in one of Michael Fremers tour videos of Rega HQ where they at some point go by the speed and wow/flutter testing area which I believe all tables pass through for examination, there they have a graph showing the different table tolerances. Anything above those specifications would classify as a faulty product Im quite sure.
     
  10. MARTHY

    MARTHY Member

    Before you do anything, you might want to join the "Rega Turntables" Facebook group and then post your issue there as well. Obviously by the name of the group, this is solely for Rega owners, and the group has nearly 4, 400 members, of which I am one of them.
     
    Leonthepro likes this.
  11. rainsoothe

    rainsoothe New Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Romania
    Thanks for all the replies, people. I'll need to keep it short for now, but to clarify - I measured the speed with an app that works like the Rega recommended "Turntabulator", only it's for Android. You just place the phone on the platter, start the TT and it shows you the RPM at any given moment. On every rotation, it reads 33.4 to 33.6. I measured it by placing the phone on the platter AND by placing it on top of a record weight, with the same results. I guess I'll have to try to return it, then... Don't know if I wanna bother with a strobe-disc, that's even more time (and money) spent waiting to recieve it, testing, and probably reaching the same conclusion. I'll be talking to the dealership, it seems...

    I'll try to upload a phone recording of the sound, maybe you can tell me that's within limits and I'm just hearing things, and that's how tt's usually sound.
     
  12. rainsoothe

    rainsoothe New Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Romania
    Thanks, Marthy, I'll do that.
     
  13. russk

    russk Forum Resident

    Location:
    Syracuse NY
    0.3% for a Rega? No way. I'd bet money when reviews come out where it's independently measured it's more than 0.3%. The RP6 was anywhere from 0.4% to a believable 0.7% and I've heard the P6 in an all Rega system. It's a modest improvement at best over the RP6 with the biggest difference being the overall pitch accuracy thanks to the new PSU. To many factors affect pitch stability and W&F in a belt drive. That being said the P6 is a great table but like all Rega tables it's a pass if you have perfect pitch. Fortunately I don't have that problem so I can enjoy my RP6.
     
  14. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Uppsala Sweden
    Regas wow and flutter tolerance on the new Planar 3 and 6 tables at least since may 16 2016 or 17 is indeed 0.30% MAX. Anything more is returnable Im pretty sure.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2017
  15. brianmch

    brianmch Member

    Location:
    Kansas City, MO
    Both my P3-24 and P6 run slightly fast. I'm not a hater and listening to my P6 now.

    I'm sure I'll get flamed for this but fast/irregular is normal for Rega. They changed motor specs when the P3-24 was put out in 2008 in an effort to tighten this up. That's also why they offer the TTPSU.

    Besides direct drive solution, I understand that a low-torque belt drive is another design to consider. Good luck.
     
    H8SLKC likes this.
  16. Erocka2000

    Erocka2000 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY, USA
    You can adjust the speed on the P6 though.
     
  17. brianmch

    brianmch Member

    Location:
    Kansas City, MO
    Please do tell
     
  18. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Uppsala Sweden
    Yes, this should have been mentioned earlier, but we are mostly talking about speed fluctuation I believe. So setting the general speed lower will only move the lower and upper speed bounds down a bit.
     
  19. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Uppsala Sweden
    [​IMG]
    I believe you adjust a screw on the speed controls on the back of the NEO PSU, see image above. As mentioned though, lowering the speed wont affect wow and flutter Im quite sure, it is worth a try though I would think.
     
  20. timztunz

    timztunz "A Dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

    Location:
    Texas and Brasil
    I'm not sure which app you're using but in the new Neo-PSU manual they recommend the app RPM which I do believe comes in an Apple as well as Android version.
     
    Leonthepro likes this.
  21. H8SLKC

    H8SLKC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Bottom line really is that if a user MUST have speed perfectly spot on, it's DD or bust. Even if human perception is unable to hear the W&F that we're talking about with solid gear, the user who has convinced himself that he has preternatural capabilities can only be satisfied ultimately with a solution that is clearly far better than human perception. Based on OPs initial assertions I would think he could only ever be happy with a quartz locked DD machine. Every time he even sees a belt, or the TTPSU, he will become convinced that he's hearing other-than perfection, whether or not it's true. Why bother with all of that? He'll be driven crazy until he acquires something along the lines of the new Technics machines.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2017
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  22. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Uppsala Sweden
    I mean I can really not hear any wow and flutter on my RP1, its just running a little fast. So I get your point, but its really hard to tell if this is the case or not, I usually like to give benefit of doubt though.
    I do agree with the DD route as mentioned earlier.
     
  23. timztunz

    timztunz "A Dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

    Location:
    Texas and Brasil
    I’m not sure if this helps you much, just sharing my experience. I have an RP6 fully tricked out with all of the Groovetracer upgrades plus the Michael Lim double pulley and silicon belts. Like you I could never get the speed controlled or under 33.4rpm. But this weekend I upgraded the TT-PSU to the new speed controllable Neo unit. It now runs at a smooth and consistent 33.31-33.34. Most grateful to member @KT88 for getting the Neo for me. Good luck with your P6.
     
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  24. patient_ot

    patient_ot Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    The new P6 has a different TTPSU than the old one. There is an adjustment screw on the back. However, there is no way to adjust 33 and 45 independently. Would probably drive anyone anal about speed being on nuts.
     
  25. timztunz

    timztunz "A Dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

    Location:
    Texas and Brasil
    There’s no need to adjust them independently. Once 33.3 is set 45 is just as accurate.
     
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