New SHM-SACDs last-word on packaging, sonics PART TWO

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by LEONPROFF, Jun 3, 2014.

  1. toilet_doctor

    toilet_doctor "Rockin' chair's got me"

    Location:
    USA
    "I don't know if we need them after the excellent box set..."
    Yes, we need it in Hi-Rez format.

    I used to have some Roxy Music LPs in 70's, but didn't pay much attention to their music at the time - Hard Rock and Prog dominated in my collection.
    Everything changed in 1999 when 24-bit Remaster was made - I fell in love with unique approach of Bryan Ferry and his team, bought both Roxy and Solo catalogs in Japan Mini LP released by EMI. Virgin/EMI has always been home to the Roxy Music band.

    EMI liked that Uni was doing in recent years. In 2012 EMI tried Flat Transfer from UK Original Master for world-wide release of 10CD Roxy Music Box Set:

    "2012 ten CD set. The Complete Studio Recordings includes each of the eight Roxy Music studio albums released in the ten year period of 1972-1982, on CD plus two discs of bonus tracks containing tracks previously unavailable on CD. Each album has been taken back to its original form. Audio 2012 flat transfers from the original analogue master tapes (not the 1999 remasters), ensuring the audio sounds truer to its original LP sound. Includes the albums Roxy Music, For Your Pleasure, Stranded, Country Life, Siren, Manifesto, Flesh And Blood and : Avalon plus two bonus CDs containing non-album tracks, single edits and more". -- EMI

    I decided to wait for Japanese release and it did happen last year. I bought it with my eyes closed, then I realized that it is still old 1999 Remaster. I also was surprised to see Universal instead of EMI on the covers. I went to Uni Japan site and learned that EMI Japan and Uni Japan signed agreement - some kind of merger for future Japanese releases. However, old narrow minded habits took over in EMI UK Headquarter - they did not allow Uni to use fresh 2012 Flat Transfer for new 2013 release.

    Meanwhile, just two months ago, British musician and composer Eddie Jobson has changed the way how entire Industry operates. He broke existed agreement to use his own 2009 Remaster for 2014 U.K. release, providing Uni with 2014 Flat Transfer from U.K. Master Tape, he licensed back to EMI.

    Huge success of U.K. release in Japan forced Uni and EMI (3/4 of entire industry) to reconsider everything: rather than to issue 1-2 albums at the time, Uni now tends to release entire set of one artist in 3 versions without individual boxes and to use Flat Transfer for non-Universal releases as well.

    All of that give me one more hope to see new Genesis release flat transferred from Original Master tape in two weeks.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2014
    colmanjones and Mik like this.
  2. jcarr73729

    jcarr73729 Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    Thanks for the info.

    I have the 2012 studio 'flats' and am very happy with them. When the follow-up hi-res releases were ditched, I just shrugged and moved on. The recent SHMs drew my attention because 'Viva' has always been a favourite, and have never been satisfied with the two CD masters. I grabbed a copy of the SHM 'Viva' off the internet and was surprised to find that it was just a re-hash of the late-1990's masters. I'm glad I took the illegal route to not have have wasted my money. I note, however, that it's only the studio albums listed above in the future releases. My wait for a good digital version of 'Viva' continues. Shrug.
     
  3. KeithH

    KeithH Success With Honor...then and now

    Location:
    Beaver Stadium
    I have the Avalon and think it is very good in stereo. (I rarely listen to music in 5.1.)
     
  4. Good. That's what I was looking for, I don't listen in 5.1 either. Almost always stereo. Thank you!
     
  5. AWESOME! Too bad the discs from the box set with the singles and remixes are not being released as SHM-SACD's. That means we won't get Virginia Plain, etc., in hi-res. :(
     
    Dino likes this.
  6. old school

    old school Senior Member

    I'm asking you what do the Doors SACD have to do with the Japanese SHM- SACD?
     
  7. motionoftheocean

    motionoftheocean Senior Member

    Location:
    Circus Maximus
    Please read the post you quoted. Have a nice day.
     
  8. old school

    old school Senior Member

    Now if the shoe was on the other foot god forbid.
     
  9. Mickactual

    Mickactual Humble indie rock musician

    It appears, according to the CD Japan listing, this is one SACD with only the original album mix (as expected).
    ...But this begs another question: Could CD Japan's listing for Sometime In New York City be in error? They list it as a 2-SACD set. ...Yet it's the same price as the other single-disc titles. And it should certainly be able to fit onto a single SACD.
     
  10. Lucidae

    Lucidae AAD

    Location:
    Australia
    I made an interesting discovery regarding Free's Tons of Sobs and self titled SHM-SACD's.
    They both have a noticeable amount of analogue compression, similar to the two recent Steely Dan SHM-SACD's.
    This might indicate they are sourced from a LP cutting master or something similar.
     
  11. Plan9

    Plan9 Mastering Engineer

    Location:
    Toulouse, France
    Maybe, or could be a different Dolby A decoding, though I'm not sure the album, pretty low-budget, was recorded with it.
     
  12. Espen R

    Espen R Senior Member

    Location:
    Norway
    The Lennon SHM-SACDs are out in a couple of days.

    What worries me a bit is "Double Fantasy". One of my favourite albums.

    The SHM-SACD will use the George Marino 2010 mastering. I pulled out my 2010 Marino CD re-master to imagine what sound can be expected on the SHM-SACD....
    Marino has done a good analogue-to-digital transfer on this one. The sound is clear and clean with good transparens in sound. It is more of a flat transfer than MFSL, that is a bit boosted in the lower area.

    BUT, the Marino CD is compressed and sounds a bit "steely". That is not good.
    Anyone know if the mastering was done without compression and compression/limiting only was done making the CD master?
    If so, I has a hope that the SACD will make use of a better source that is not compressed.
     
  13. Plan9

    Plan9 Mastering Engineer

    Location:
    Toulouse, France
    The downmix for this album is digital 44.1kHz/16bit.
    Marino employed significant compression/limiting for his CD and Hi-Res mastering. The original CD and the MoFi are less/not compressed.
     
  14. Espen R

    Espen R Senior Member

    Location:
    Norway
    I know the MoFi is not compressed.

    But Marino did not A/D the analogue tapes into a 16/44 converter.
    He used a 20-24 bit converter with higher sampling rate. I wonder if this transfer was done without compression and digital compression was added at a later stage.
     
  15. Espen R

    Espen R Senior Member

    Location:
    Norway
    The original downmix is not digital....they could not do that in 1980 (...hardly)
     
  16. Plan9

    Plan9 Mastering Engineer

    Location:
    Toulouse, France
    ^ You're right I was thinking of Milk & Honey.


    I compared the 2010 CD of Double Fantasy with the Hi-Res (same mastering) and didn't feel the improvement was important.
    I doubt they would do a different transfer for the SACD, it is pretty clear they are using the existing 2010 24/96 masters.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2014
  17. zappaien

    zappaien Forum Resident

    Location:
    Paris France
    Hello all,

    Beach boys SHM SACD are out, they re MONO or STEREO/MONO with 2014 DSD from US analog master, depends of album. Pet sounds is Mono
    I should get Today! ( Mono ) and All summer long tomorrow ( Stereo /mono ), will post
     
  18. jh901

    jh901 Forum Resident

    Location:
    PARRISH FL USA
    Please post your impressions in the Beach Boys thread. I intend to give a few a spin tonight also.
     
  19. KeithH

    KeithH Success With Honor...then and now

    Location:
    Beaver Stadium
    Very good news. Thanks!
     
  20. masterbucket

    masterbucket Senior Member

    Location:
    Georgia US
    Just got my cdjapan package this morning with Lennon and a few other shm sacds.
    Kind of bummed the Lennon sacds are not in the nice boxes of previous issues.
     
  21. Espen R

    Espen R Senior Member

    Location:
    Norway
    Uni Japan has changed the packaging from the Lennon/Beach Boys SACDs. No more boxes, but a kind of mini Lp style from now on.
    Can you share some pics?
     
  22. rstamberg

    rstamberg Senior Member

    Location:
    Riverside, CT
    It's one disc. Mine just arrived.
     
  23. Espen R

    Espen R Senior Member

    Location:
    Norway
    Share some pics of the new mini Lp format.....? :)
     
  24. MikeT

    MikeT Prior Forum Cretin and Current Impatient Creep

    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    I just got the two Lennon issues I ordered, and I confirm they are now in flat mini LP style packaging. Since we can't upload pics anymore, I'm not going to try, but just think your basic Mini LP sleeve,

    As mentioned elsewhere, the two SHM-SACDs of Lennon I received were DSD flat transferred from the 2010 Digital Remasters - so they didn't even go to the length of remastering these for SHM-SACD.

    So my next question is, since it will determine if I even order any of the Roxy Music SHM-SACDs - will those be taken from the same transfers that the excellent 2012 Remaster Box set was taken from? If so I will most likely pass on all those titles.
     
  25. Espen R

    Espen R Senior Member

    Location:
    Norway
    Tanks Mike!

    No, Roxy Music, The Band and Beach Boys are new 2014 DSD transfers.
     

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