Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by LeeS, Jun 29, 2013.
Very interesting. You have certainly been on a roll lately.
Maybe it is system and/or AC power dependent as I have heard a noticeable difference on every Shunyata cord I have placed put in my system.
What has impressed me with Shunyata is that it even made a nice difference after I put in a heavy gauge Romex dedicated line to a high quality outlet for my system.
Wall what and Best who ?
I was referring to some well known bars with very well known names . I have not A/B'ed the Emotiva , but have tried many that make similar claims .
I can say the Defender didn't alter the signal to the point that my ears could discern .
Happy listening .
I just received a big box of Shunyata goodies including a PS8, a Defender, the Stainless Steel Feet, and the Venom-HC. Got here a full week early.
I will post some impressions soon but the build quality and appearance are all top notch. Very pleased so far.
Count me as curious about the Defender, too! Only way I would think you could measure it is record "silence" when it is and isn't plugged in, but let us know how it goes.
Will do. I want to burn this in for the recommended five continuous days. Then I will try the Defender and see what happens. It definitely has lowered the noise floor (1 hour in so far) and I'm hearing more detail on my recordings.
Thanks for taking the plunge and reporting your (preliminary, so far) findings.
I want to upgrade my power situation soon - I am in the last phase of furniture acquisition for my listening room (new chair for my wife arrives on Thursday) and I can start working on system updates like power and speakers.
The one thing that I truly hate about most power strips is how they won't let some of the music through. Thank goodness someone finally addressed this situation!
So far this is a really effective component and at $700 it is reasonably priced for the build quality. I will post more detailed thoughts in a week or two.
Not an issue with PS8. I'm hearing a lot of music. Very, very happy tonight.
For an all-out assault with Shunyata equipment, Steve Williams posted a good update on WBF.
Steve immediately told me good job on the PS8 but I really needed a Triton and Typhon. I should ask Steve for a $10K loan to pay for it.
Steve is a terrific guy. The WBF folks get together for dinner every year at Rocky Mountain at a nearby steakhouse with excellent food. It's a great time. You gotta join us Geoff.
I felt the Hydra 6 helped to upgrade my sound. Recently I tried a Defender plugged into the Hydra and multiple outlets in my listening and couldn't tell a difference so it went back to Music Direct.
I think this is likely due to the Defender having the same noise reduction circuits as the Hydra. So if you have a Hydra already it may not make a difference unless it is reducing noise from other parts of the house.
Interesting, thanks for the report. I use V-Rays already so I wonder if I'd be the same way...
I would suspect you'd be even less likely to hear a difference with V-Rays, but YMMV as they say. MD does have a good return policy.
I was reading the AudioAficionado forum about the PS8 and Defender ~ Straight from the horses' mouth so to speak ~ Caelin Gabriel mentioned that the PS8 is essentially a high grade power receptacle and it would/should not have a postive (or negative) effect on the sound of your equipment by and of itself (other than the fact that it won't degrade the sound from multiple pieces of equipment plugged into it). It also does not provide protection or conditioning and only by adding the Defender would you receive that ~ however the Defender will be of minimal effect if you already have clean power in your home.
Guys, unless your power is really sh!tty, save your money.
This is a bit out of context as Caelin is referring to Ivan's system which is crazy complex and megabuck expensive (I see Ivan at RMAF, he's friends with Puma Cat). So like Cabbagetown's system, Caelin is simply saying if you have a Shunyata conditioner before it in the system then the power is already being filtered so no improvement is likely to happen. In my posts, I am talking to just the PS8 and Defender. A few more observations...
1. The company told me that the PS8 with the Defender is essentially the same conditioning circuit as the Hydra and built mostly with the same parts such as the outlets and busses. So right there thousands of dollars saved in terms of ac filtering. The Defender also adds line protection so if you have the Defender your two biggest objections are solved.
2. I can only report my experience on the sound and I have very good power including a 10 gauge Romex dedicated line. The PS8 and Defender have made a significant improvement on the sound of my system. I was surprised how much better it sounded given the dedicated power line and good quality outlets I have. Two of my friends were over on Saturday and mentioned the improvement as well.
3. Shunyata is doing product line extension by making an affordable entry level product. It's smart business as it encourages movement up the line to better cords and distribution devices. Another example of great but expensive products leading to innovation in the affordable stuff.
There is a nice writeup by recording engineer John Marks in Stereophile which also talks to the sound improvement.
I understand your perceived improvements and if you can tell a difference and it's worth it to you then I'm all for it.
However Gabriel's post was in reference to a user that was unhappy with the performance and found no percieved benefits to having the Defender (he stuck a Defender into his powerlines and found no benefit). That's when Gabriel replied that the PS8 was/is a Power Distributor - and in regards to the Defender - "If there is no noise on the powerline, then there will be no sonic improvement when using the Defender" ... so regardless if you are using a Shunyata product or not, if your lines are clean to begin with then the improvements would be minimal (if any). Even the original poster goes onto say that "I'm happy to confirm I have low noise powerlines and don't need to spend a lot of money on PLCs and PCs." So IMO it's not that out of context.
Just curious Lee, what outlets were you using and plugging into before? Were they all wall mounted and part of your dedicated line or were you using another power strip before the Shunyata?
Wall mounted Oyaide GX+ outlets. The Romex is run straight from the panel to the wall outlet.
In my experience there is always noise on ac lines. The benefit of dedicated lines and better power gear is that some portion of the noise is filtered away which is what the mdpa filter in the Hydra and Defender do.
I do a lot of location recordings and so I saw first hand the noise of ac lines. It's one reason we use battery power now.
Further my experience is that many who think they have low noise lines really dont and good power gear will make a difference.
Also read the last line of Caelin's quote. He is saying the defender is redundant if you already have a Triton or Hydra in the system which Ivan does. I believe that is what the issue is with Cabbagetown's system as he had a Hydra.
What Caelin is not saying is that a PS8 and Defender will not make an improvement by itself.
P.S. I also borrowed PS Audio conditioners but found the difference in improvement to be smaller although the gear was well made. I also used a Hydra 2 which had the same effect.
Interesting. I have no experience with the GX, but it has a reputation for being a bit "warmish" and perhaps a bit lacking in extension. Oyaide does not cryo their receptacles stock (unlike Furutech) but a number of dealers cryo them after the fact.
I have experience with the R1 (both cryoed and stock), which I currently use at the wall with the WPC-Z wall plate, and all of the receptacles in my conditioner have been replaced with cryoed HBL 5362's (or 5262's, the 15 amp version, or 8200H's which are very similar in terms of sonics), which is what the Shunyatas are.
Not surprising to me that you'd hear a difference moving from the GX's to the PS8, particularly if your GX's were not cryoed and especially in the initial stages before the Shunyatas burn in, and believe me they will. They should sound quite a bit better after a couple of weeks, even a month. Straight out of the box they'd be hyperdetailed and I bet very different from a fully broken in Oyaide GX based on what I've read about that receptacle.
I personally feel that the PS8 is really just a high end power strip. I have no problem believing that it can have a very positive impact on sound quality though; I've said for years that the cumulative effects of very high quality receptacles (and the cryoed HBL 5362 is a very high quality receptacle) can be pretty dramatic. I think the Shunyata is pricey for what it is in looking at some other products that are out there, but it definitely is pretty and I can believe it would have a significant impact in performance in many peoples' systems.
The "Defender" I'm not too sure about. Would be interesting to rip one apart and see what it is. My guess is that it's a relatively simple parallel shunt type filter.
Separate names with a comma.