New ultrasonic RCM

As much as I liked my VPI and the great job it does, cleaning my vinyl was always an "event." I would gather up 15 - 20 albums, set the machine up on the kitchen table, have the cleaning solution ready to go (along with refill jug) and start cleaning away. After cleaning that many albums I would start getting tired, so I would empty the spent fluid and lug everything back to their place in my listening room.

I just cleaned 5 records with the Audio Desk Systeme...basically a "set it and forget it" process. I vacillated between this and the KL Audio machine until the seller gave me a deal that made my mind up for me.

 

This is why I want an ultrasonic, using my rcm is an ordeal gotta set up and area and after being hunched over for an hour I'm worn out

 

Nice! The Audio Desk machines are very nice. Love using my demo unit.

 

Same here -- I went from VPI to Loricraft, and loved it but cleaning was always an effort of liquids, pads and cycles. Snagged a bargain on a KL Audio unit and have cleaned as many records in 3 months as I did in the last year or more with the old way. Now, if I want to hear something and think it needs cleaning first, instead of putting it aside for the next cleaning session, I just pop it in the machine and have it ready to play in eight minutes. As a side effect, it has caused me to dig out more stuff that sat unplayed to give it a clean and then a listen.

 

Very nice & congrats. I believe yours has a slight advantage over the new Clear audio double matrix ultrasonic. It's nice but for those worried about dragging contaminates over the same velvet pad may go with yours. Yours "suspends" the contaminates in water and ideally you'd have a second rinse basin to wash away the sonics first cleaning. If audio desk could incorporate a small jar or even an outside line that could be connected to say a gallon distilled jug for a final rinse before vacuum it would be a home run.
I'm running loose here with lot of IF's to be incorporated into a dream machine. Then by the time I'm done, I'm sure it would be the size of a fridge. Lol.
Anyway, a big congrats!

 

So, in comparing the results from a VPI to an Ultrasonic...what do you hear? About the same with less work? Substantially cleaner, quieter, records?

 

I'm curious of the results as well.. I built a DIY ultrasonic RCM a while back and my results with a traditional vacuum RCM were way better.

 

I don't have an RCM but a local hi-fi dealer offers a cleaning service. I took 6 lps to be cleaned, all of which had been cleaned on an Okki Nokki already but were still noisy. None of them came out any better. It is possible that all 6 had issues that no cleaner could fix but I think the odds are against that.

Ultrasonic RCMs do receive good reviews but I don't often see reviews that pit the Ultrasonic RCM against a traditional vacuum based RCM.

 

I have done the same, with the same results. But, if I had the collection and the spare funds, I would own the OP's Cleaner!

 

So after a few days with the ultrasonic, here are my impressions:

1. Convenience - No question, the Audio Desk has that in spades over the VPI
2. Footprint - The Audio Desk takes up much less room on my shelf
3. Noise - The edge goes to the Audio Desk, the drying fan is a tad less noisy than the vacuum motor of the VPI
4. Cleaning - Tough to do a head to head comparison. I did clean a few albums that were a bit noisy after cleaning with the VPI and they were less noisy. Edge to the Audio Desk.
5. Drying - The VPI's vacuum does, in my opinion, a much better job drying the vinyl. I have noticed a few drops left behind by Audio Desk blow-dry method
6. Parts/Accessories - VPI, no question. The VPI's parts and accessories are readily available. I am looking for a retailer for the Audio Desk proprietary cleaning solution. It comes with 6 bottles that are good for approximately 100 albums. The Audio Desk brushes are supposed to be changed after 1000 cleanings and run $99 for a set.
7. Value - I am and will always be a fan of the VPI 16.5. For the price it adds a ton of value for anyone that is serious about quality vinyl.

Just my opinion, take it for what it's worth.

 

I've used ultrasonic cleaners in the lab, they are good for busting loose contaminants with cavitation and turbulence, but then you get the same thing as a spin clean, a wet record with dirtied water on it. What does this cleaner do for your wet record after it is washed, it sounds like it will leave some moisture behind?

An ample clean water rinse before contactless vacuuming as the vinyl slowly rotates out of an ultrasonic dip would be the final ingredient to replace all other cleaning methods short of glue.

 

A few drops doesn't bother me in the least. With anything one can find positives and negatives. If the vacuum tube on the VPI isn't installed properly it too can leave moisture on the record. To me the convenience factor is huge.

 

Since you machine was used, have you replaced the white wipers on it? There should really not be much/any moisture left on the album after the drying cycle.

 

As an fyi to those above worried about dirty water, the Audio Desk's use a filter to cycle the water/cleaning fluid through as it runs.

 

That seems to be a key feature over the diy ultra sonic cleaners....but comes at quite the price difference too

 

While I don't have one, I've seen Fish Tank Filters used with DIY Ultra Cleaners, seems to work effectively.

 

I haven't seen that but certainly an interesting idea.....and I've got an old canister filter laying around too hmmmm

 

I've been using audio desk for over 1.5 years and cleaned numerous records and it is by far the easiest way to clean lps and does a better job than any other system I've used including spin clean with an NG vacuum cleaner. I had a VPI but sold it as I didn't think it did a very good job not because of its manufacture but its basic design and implementation process.

To me cleaning an lp and cleaning dishes are one and the same and as anyone who has washed dishes knows soaking the dishes really helps remove the dried on food or in the case of lps, dust and other contaminants which is where the vpi fell short and why the audio desk is so good - it soaks the records and uses the bubbles to blast away the crap and no brushes touch the records during drying which may deposit contaminants again. Spin clean was second as it soaks the records and the way I had it set up I left the wet records on a level platter to extend the soak time and then on to the nitty gritty.

I've cleaned way over 1000 lps and my brushes are fine and I use just plain distilled water and nothing else.

Some records just can't be saved or made quieter and often it is just bad pressings including some of my WLPs which kinda surprised me.

 

My Ultrasonic RCM experience is limited, especially compared to your 1.5 years of use. I've only had 6 cleaned on the same model as mentioned above using only distilled water (I posted my experience above). But I've been using vacuum based on RCMs for a decade now.

I've heard similar comments in the past re: the brush or the platter design resulting in contaminates being in contact with the just cleaned side and I've found both of these to be over blown. I've never had a serious issue with these two situations. At most you might get a spec of dust that can just be blown away.

You can also achieve excellent soaking results with platter based RCMs. You just leave the fluid on the record for 2-3 minutes and repeat if necessary.

 

I've got a cheap and effective method I use. La art du son liquid, sprayed onto the surface. A few sweeps round with a goat hair brush. Spray rinse with distilled water. And finally a suck up of the liquid with a karcher window vac. Works a treat.

 

My DIY ultrasonic cleaner has a recirculating filter as well and while it does collect a lot of gunk, it doest help clean any better. I think the biggest problem with ultrasonic RCMs is that fact that they typically use plain water to clean. I've also tried adding a few drops of photoflow (surfactant) and a bit of isopropyl alcohol to my tank and still not much of a difference. I did test my tank with tin foil to make sure it was working (cavitation) and all was fine there.

Despite the inconvenience, I'll stick to vacuum RCM's at this point.. At least that's been my personal experience.

 

I've had a KLAudio for a few years. If you don't mind using a VPI, I don't see a huge difference. Don't get me wrong, my cleaner is an excellent machine, but I drank the cool-aid when the initial reviews came out several years ago. The reviews in the audiophile mags all sang its praises, black backgrounds, greater dynamics upon playback after using the cleaner, etc. If you already have a cleaning regimen that works and is effective, it's good enough.

 

I had the exact same experience with the Audio Desk. I fell victim to all these reviews describing it as a revelation to record cleaning and I was expecting miracles. In reality, it did not clean the records any significantly better than my old VPI 16.5.

 

Totally agree. I'm happy with the KLAudio. It does a good job and it's very convenient, but it's no better than cleaning an LP (wash and rinse) utilizing good products with a VPI.

 

I've used Loricraft & Audio Desk and the best cleaning method I've ever experienced was using a label protector and cleaning the vinyl under running water with dish soap and scrubbed with a brush and then a wood glue follow up. Now that will give you a black background.