New vinyl that is the same as the loudness war CD, but people think sounds better

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by dlokazip, Mar 8, 2018.

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  1. patient_ot

    patient_ot Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    It doesn't happen often but it does happen occasionally. I've gotten files from Bandcamp from small labels that were the vinyl master.
     
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  2. c-eling

    c-eling Forum Resident

    I think that's where you may see the trend. Newer bands that aren't well established or have a huge discography. The kids may be playing around with old tech or mastering ideas (which can be a good thing)
     
  3. patient_ot

    patient_ot Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    Not all of it is DIY, record in a garage type stuff either. Some of these are from established independent labels with worldwide distribution. A recent example would be the reissues of Pestilence's first two LPs that Hammerheart did last year. The BC downloads were the vinyl master, they even came with scans of the vinyl cover art, and I confirmed it with the record label.

    Another example is Vassafor's last album. It was released by a couple different labels for each format. The label that released the vinyl provided the vinyl master as a BC download. The label the released the CD gave people a CD rip as the download. The vinyl master was different in that case.
     
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  4. c-eling

    c-eling Forum Resident

    That kind of behavior would re-invigorate my motivation on new releases if it became a norm. I'm just tired of dud after dud, so's my wallet :laugh:
     
  5. patient_ot

    patient_ot Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    There is a lot of this going on, unfortunately.

     
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  6. patient_ot

    patient_ot Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    Have you considered that your phono cartridge, phono stage, etc. is merely providing a more pleasing EQ profile to your ears than whatever your digital playback system is?

     
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  7. patient_ot

    patient_ot Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    I hear you. With new music, I typically just opt for the CD or digital download. Even if the LP is mastered well (by a "name" engineer) or better than the CD or lossless download version, we're still playing the lottery with pressing defects.
     
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  8. nosliw

    nosliw Azunyan! にゃーーー!

    Location:
    Ottawa, ON, Canada
    Interesting information about Pestilence's first two albums and Vassafor's last album and its Bandcamp downloads. I should definitely look into this. Cheers, man!
     
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  9. Vocalpoint

    Vocalpoint Forum Resident

    That "edgy compressed sound" that is bothering you is exactly why the material is too loud.

    Copious amounts (usually excessive amounts) of dynamic range compression is required to create/increase perceived 'loudness".

    VP
     
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  10. Vocalpoint

    Vocalpoint Forum Resident

    Unless otherwise clearly stated - you can almost bet that 99.99999% of all recent/new/modern releases are all derived from the exact same final master.

    No record company is going to shell out to make separate masters for CD, LP and downloads.

    While I would love it if this were to ever happen - but the chances of it are practically nil. (singular ultra rare case excepted of course).

    VP
     
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  11. lemonade kid

    lemonade kid Forever Changing

    Location:
    Maine
    10%? Really? I guess the rest of us are just minions with nothing important to say.

    Isn't what we 90% like, or hear, without $10,000 equipment, valued?.... even if from an entirely different perspective? Or am I misinterpreting what sounds to be rather harsh and elitist?
     
  12. patient_ot

    patient_ot Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    I should warn you that you may not like the Pestilence remasters if you have the original 80s CD version. I wanted to hear them so I gave them a shot, but I have an 80s CD of Consuming Impulse that I like more. Also the bonus tracks are more compressed than the main album tracks. Sadly Hammerheart made the 3rd and 4th albums more compressed than what they did with the first two. If you like the remasters of the first two, don't expect that the third and fourth ones will follow the same pattern. The Vassafor album is recorded very roughly like all their stuff, but the BC download version of the LP release is most dynamic digital version you can get.

    Links you may find interesting:

    Album details - Dynamic Range Database

    Album details - Dynamic Range Database

    Album details - Dynamic Range Database
     
  13. kwf

    kwf Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boston
    Not strictly on topic, but I thought the iTunes version of VH ADKOT sounded better than the cd
     
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  14. curbach

    curbach Some guy on the internet

    Location:
    The ATX
    He did not say why he values only 5-10% of the opinions here. Why are you assuming equipment is the reason? In fact, he explicitly said it was not about the equipment in post #9.
     
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  15. Look forget about vinyl. Just apply green marker pen to the inside and outside edges of that harsh sounding CD and bingo!
     
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  16. Diablo Griffin

    Diablo Griffin Synthpop, City Pop, and Rock Enthusiast

    Location:
    United States
    I used to have Judas Priest's Redeemer of Souls on vinyl, but I sold since it wasn't that different from the CD. The production is very congested and flat, so maybe that's why the LP and CD sounded so similar to me.
     
  17. lemonade kid

    lemonade kid Forever Changing

    Location:
    Maine
    Sorry..I need to be better on my past post reading. Sorry guys.
     
  18. I found some metal albums are hit or miss and can sound very "loud"
     
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  19. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    Very true, if only because of some people's bias for vinyl. If some of these people saw a spinning turntable but were actually listening to the sound of a brickwalled CD, they'd probably still proclaim vinyl as sounding warm.
     
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  20. Mr_Vinyl

    Mr_Vinyl Forum Resident

    It really depends on the titles. That's why doing some research beforehand - like on this forum - helps a lot. Another is the DR database (if you're talking about dynamics), but you shouldn't base yourself solely on that.
     
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  21. uzn007

    uzn007 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Baja Virginia
    I think you are, if I may be so bold. I didn't mean to be harsh, and I certainly group myself in the "90%" almost all of the time.

    Keep in mind that the comment was made in the context of discussing whether different versions of certain albums sound better or worse than other versions. There's a huge amount of discussion on this subject around here, but most of it is purely subjective (e.g. "I don't know anything about this album's provenance, but it 'sounds digital' to me").

    So my point (with which you may disagree) was that the number of people who have particularly useful knowledge or insight on this particular subject are, unfortunately. a small minority around here.

    For the rest? Yeah, I value a lot of it for a lot of different reasons, or else I wouldn't keep coming back, whether it's obscure recording session trivia, reminiscences of old-timers or the in-depth discussion of which five post-1994 Yes albums are the best.
     
  22. uzn007

    uzn007 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Baja Virginia
    #ThrowbackThursday
     
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  23. drbryant

    drbryant Forum Resident

    I'm not sure what your "hypothesis" is. That there are new LP's that sound no different than their digital counterparts? Of course. No one, as far as I know, disagrees with this. Your assumptions are faulty.

    First of all, I have never heard anyone on this Forum state uncategorically "they sound better only because they are on vinyl." Maybe among the general public there exists that level of ignorance - people that don't actually buy vinyl, but might have read somewhere that vinyl sounds better. People on this Forum are all too aware that there are many new LP's that are not mastered any better than their CD counterparts. However, as most of us know, the vinyl versions of recent releases are often better. Some of the most valuable discussion on this Forum involve determining when that is, or is not, the case.

    As far as "notorious loudness war CD's" I haven't seen anyone say "buy the vinyl" blindly. Again, you have sophisticated listeners here. The recommendations that I can remember about Death Magnetic (both on this Forum and on Metallica fan forums) were "do NOT buy the vinyl" because it doesn't sound any better. The furor over Death Magnetic arose (among Metallica fans, the vast majority of whom are NOT audiophiles) because the Guitar Hero version came out uncompressed and sounded much, much better. On the other hand, when people feel that the vinyl does sound much better, there are recommendations - McCartney's Chaos and Creation or Memory Almost Full, Radiohead's In Rainbows (45 rpm version), Chili Peppers' Stadium Arcadium (the US vinyl 4-LP set), the White Stripes' Icky Thump or Get Behind Me Satan, Tom Petty's Highway Companion.

    Many times, there will be very specific recommendations regarding sound quality and pressing quality that make it much easier to make an educated purchase. One problem recently is that as the Forum has grown, there are a lot of newer members that may just be getting started with vinyl (or may be listening only to vinyl rips that, of course, are dependent on the cartridge/system that was used to record them). You do need to learn to identify those posts and focus on those that seem to have some rational basis - then you can find the best sounding versions of music you like. I mean, that's the whole point of the Forum, no?
     
  24. Mr_Vinyl

    Mr_Vinyl Forum Resident

    VP, it depends on what you consider to be the exact same final master. There are huge differences in many cases. Take Norah Jones' latest album. The dynamics on the vinyl are very different from both the cd and the digital download. Same for Roger Waters' latest, Opeth, etc...
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
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  25. marcb

    marcb Senior Member

    Location:
    DC area
    Some would say they’re basically the same.
     
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