SH Spotlight Newbies getting started playing vinyl, please avoid mistracking & resulting groove damage!!!

It's likely OK.
I've heard both good & bad about the M97XE, but I have not yet tried one. Do you still have your 1219's original OEM V15??
I'm gonna eventually try the JICO VN35E and/or SAS version of that stylus. The V15-II came OEM on my 1219. Both versions of the stylus get very good reviews over on AK and Jico sites too.

 

It certainly brought ME some piece of mind. And you can always get a Jico as I was advised.

 

I'm using an M97Xe that I purchased about 3 years ago in my Dual 1229Q. It still has the original stylus and it's just fine. I've found that the M97 and the Dual are a fine match. I don't think you need to worry.

 

No need to worry, the M-97 has no known suspension failure. It's a decent sounding cart, and tracks well. Many members on this forum recommend the Jico replacement for the M-97 for a more detailed top end. The Dual 1219 will not disappoint, provided the restoration is done properly. Watch for platter runout on these (up and down warp) and also the idler must run true. These have a tapered motor pulley for variable pitch. If the platter and idler wobble at all, (up/ down runout) this will cause speed variations, wow and flutter.

 

Hey John,
I have never experienced any damage to a record from a magnetic cartridge. I am careful with the alignment, and use mostly elliptical styli (such as the Shure M-95) I have read that line contact can cause damage if grossly misaligned. I have also read that a cheaply made elliptical tip can cause damage, even at light tracking forces. The styrene record has been said to be most susceptible to this. But again, I have styrene 45's that I've played to death on elliptical styli without any wear or damage.

Single play damage does occur most often on low compliance ceramic cartridges, the heavier tracking land sharks from the 50's and 60's the worst offenders. I have seen, and own a few records that show evidence of this, visually, by a visible wear band caused by a needle drop. Play always confirms this by the sudden onset of distortion at the affected area, then cleans up suddenly as the stylus exits the affected area. There is no other way this can occur, other than single play damage.
Keep em spinning,
Steve VK

 

Hey Steve,
Thanks for the comments. I have been using line contact styli for about the last 15 or 20 years with no issues. I think your comment about "grossly" misaligned is most likely correct.

 

I agree as well. I've been using Shibata styli since 1975, and the only records I have that have obvious problems are the ones I have that I played lots on my portable stereo I had as a young teen.

 

Sometimes it is hard to tell. But in most cases, the sheer size of the stylus is what counts. Look at your cart (use a magnifying glass, if possible). If you can barely see the stylus with your naked eye, i would guess that it is not glued to the cantilever (and a carrier).
And for the M44C you can take look at this: http://cdn.shure.com/user_guide/upload/968/us_pro_m44c_ug.pdf
From this http://www.turntableneedles.com/N44C-Type-Needle-for-Shure-M44C--our-Needle-759-D7C-copy_p_1379.html picture, i would say that the stylus is rather big and glued to a carrier.

 

Dead on on the glued tip man ! What about the part about brushing the stylus with alcohol for cleaning purposes ? Do you approve of it ?

 

Wow, my first turntable was a bottom of the line Pioneer belt drive, totally manual. I don't remember the model number, but it was a great piece of equipment. I bought it when I was 16 and didn't get rid of it until I was in my 40's. The motor was worn out, and wouldn't keep a steady speed. I replaced the belt (for about the 10th time over the lifetime of the turntable) but even that didn't help. It was the last piece of my original component system that bit the dust. I bet that table logged tens of thousands of hours of use.

I don't remember the first cart I got for it, but I'm sure it was a Shure. (I've always been partial to Shure carts because my dad swore by them.) When the V15 Type III came out, I got one. That little brush stabilizer was the coolest thing. It even came with its own alignment tool which made mounting the cartridge super easy and accurate, and I remember it sounded noticeably better than the previous cart. I replaced it with the Type V after the stylus in the Type III got damaged in a move.

I now have a Technics SL-1200MK2 (see my avatar) with the V15 Type V installed and have never had an issue with it.

 

I have no idea. I use a regular brush for brushing away the dust on my Dual CDS650 - without Alkohol. I could be that Alkohol may affect the glue. I use AT607 stylus cleaner for my Goldring. Never had any Problem with it.

 

It depends on the stylus. A misaligned conical stylus is unlikely to do much, if any damage, because the profile of the stylus tip is the same all the way around. It would need to be extremely misaligned...with the cantilever non-parallel with the grooves...to do much damage. Elliptical and line-contact styli are a different story. Because they are shaped to contact the groove in a certain orientation, being out of alignment is much more likely to cause groove damage or wear.

 

From Steve's original post, I'm reading "elliptical diamonds destroy records", and "bad tracking destroys records"...

Did i read this wrong?

Also, tracking refers to the tracking weight, correct?

I'm using an Ortofon 2M Red, (elliptical diamond), and tracking at (i believe) the recommended 1.8 grams.

 

Yes - a little bit.
Ellipticals per se' are not the problem. But if they are not aligned or have the VTF set properly, they have the potential to do damage, especially to styrene 45's.
MIS-tracking is the problem. If you go back, and reread the earlier posts, the definitions are there, with a description of what mistracking sounds like (fuzzieness).
2M Red's are very good quality. As long as it's set up properly, and the stylus is not worn-out, you should be fine.

 

Hey Burt,
Steve says in his original post a cheap elliptical destroys records. I agree with that. The alignment is always very important for an elliptical ...however... a cheap elliptical is poorly made, probably not set squarely on the cantilever (so cartridge alignment for the cheapie will do no good) plus, it's just a crap shoot. The cheap elliptical will vary in tolerances, so one tip may track halfway decently, another very poorly.

 

Interesting post. Must be why my Denon DL-102 has less surface noise than my Ortofon Rondo Red. If conical tips don't ride as low, they don't reach down into all the crud that can accumulate at the bottom of the grooves. I can't afford a better cleaning system than the Spin-Clean, and it doesn't seem to get all the way to the bottom of the grooves. The Ortofon tip can still extract dust and a little debris after a good cleaning with the Spin-Clean. I find I have to brush the tip of the elliptical more than the conical, perhaps for the same reasons mentioned above.

 

Conicals are ideal for non-critical listening and certain styles of music at the expense of some detail and high frequencies but even if the grooves are squeaky-clean (like mine) they don't access the damage made by previous elliptical styli+grime 99% of people dismiss as a ¨normal occurrence. As the owner of mostly POwned lps (bought used because a)no cd release ever b)cheaper, better sounding than their cd counterparts c)I like them better for personal reasons (which I can only share with fellow vinylphiles).

Plus, they are less likely to damage the record in case their setup is less than ideal. For all of those reasons and the fact they're cheaper, I'll stick to my conical.

 

Reading this post brings back a lot of similar memories. When he mentioned University Stereo, I thought of early 1970's Los Angeles. Boy, have those days long past.

 

What is your guys' opinions on the Shure M97xE? Is this a decent cartridge that won't cause this issue?

 

Any Shure is a decent cart. The 97 is the most expensive, doubles the price of your AT. If your TT is properly set-up, you'll be in heaven. Not what I'd use for rock music though. I'm a fan of Shure's lower models and conical tips. I'd keep yours if you don't have any gripes with its sound. But if you got money to spare I could not think of a better upgrade.

 

Currently I am using the Audio Technica AT95E and I just want to have an extra cart around just in case. Not really sure how the M97xE compares to the AT95E. I read somewhere that the M97xE is warmer sounding.

As far as I can tell, both look like decent entry level carts. I had originally gotten the AT95E to replace a Shure M91E that came on my old Sony which I wasn't very impressed with.

 

I prefer brighter carts but you could buy the Shure and keep it on a different headshell for easier swapping and see which one is better suited for the different styles of music you listen too. I regard the AT as a good all-around cart (yes I used to have one in my first TT) and personally would not go through the expense of a higher model of any brand but to each their own.

 

One thing to add. I have found that many cartridges track best at higher than recommended tracking force. For example Grado prestige carts seem to sound best around 1.8g. My trusty old Empire runs at 1.6g. At these higher numbers less wear should actually occur due to improved tracking. In other words do some experimenting to find what works best for your table/arm.