SH Spotlight Newbies getting started playing vinyl, please avoid mistracking & resulting groove damage!!!

I suggest to look into a vintage ADC 230 XE. I have one and love it! This is a rather bright cartridge, but that's not the reason I like it. (but I think to your preference) The advantages are a robust output at 8 mv, it's a good tracker, has an 0.3 x 0.7 mil elliptical (maybe a 0.2 x 0.7) but sounds like a conical, very low background noise (much quieter than Shure M97XE tracking the same slightly worn records) There is NO line hum connected to my vintage and restored Pioneer SA-500 amp at my computer desk (it's diminutive and a great sounding amp) By comparison to the M97XE, which does have very slight hum residual but at inordinately high gain, the ADC does not hum at full gain. (perhaps good synergy with the phono amp) The ADC 230 XE really does well with transients and dynamic range in a recording. Music really comes alive, perhaps "lively sounding" may describe it. More advantages, I get no IGD with this cartridge (The M97XE also good in this department but the M95 is better with its original HE stylus.. a natural diamond) The cantilever is short, so the entire mass is reduced, and so I think more positive mechanical energy transfer to the internal coils.

The two disadvantages are that it tends to accentuate sibilance in a record (that is already sibilant) and may mistrack very heavily modulated sibilants. When this occurs, I do not play that record on the ADC 230 XE. The cartridge likes to track a bit heavier than the published specs (like a conical) I have mine at 1.7 grams, recommended max is 1.5.

I have been around the block with many mid priced cartridges, from high output moving coils (Nagatron MC-8, 0.6 mil conical, a great cartridge) The entire line of vintage Shure from the M44 to M95 and V15 HE, Grado, Ortofon, etc... The ADC 230 XE excels in transient response and ability to track the inner groove without breaking a sweat.
Steve VK

 

Generally true in my experience too. There are a few exceptions, one of them the very warm and sweet sounding Shure M91-ED which seems to do best at exactly 1 gram. Any more than that, the cartridge loses its mojo... becomes too warm.

Welcome to the forum,
Steve VK

 

I also have a spin clean. The results have been spectacular, however I follow up with a rinse under a filtered running tap. I recommend the rinse, plus warm water in the spin clean. I never clean a record in cold water. Soak time helps with some records, especially vintage vinyl subjected to sticky atmospheric fallout. Also I spin the record very slowly, which I think helps the brushes "track" the groove better, which tends to clean the record more completely.

 

Thanks! I'll give all that a try

 

This seems like the perfect thread for me, since I have very little experience with vinyl. I currently own an Audio Technica AT-LP60 due to its user-friendly features such as a built-in preamp, but I'd like to purchase a vintage turntable as an upgrade. Any advice on buying a vintage TT? Is it better to buy one at a thrift shop or online?

 

That really depends on what you find at your local thrift shops. Around where I live, there is nothing but old junker BSR tables and worse. You'll have much better choices online, but if the seller doesn't know how to pack a turntable for shipping it could arrive broken. Also, be sure to check Craigslist, you might find something that has been well-cared for from a private seller. When buying from a private individual, make sure they're willing to let you listen before you buy. Stick to the more popular vintage brands; they were made in large numbers so replacement belts are still available online. Look for units made by Pioneer, Technics, Thorens (likely to be pricey, but worth it), AR, and Sansui. The afore mentioned are likely to be belt drive models, but Pioneer, Technics, and Sansui also offered direct drive models (Technics being the most famous and most durable.) For idler drive (aka rim drive) tables look for brands like Dual, Elac and Garrard. Most, but not all, idler drive turntables are likely to be automatic (the arm places itself on the record and shuts off at the end), keep in mind that automatics are more complex and require more maintenance. For Dual, check out www.fixmydual.com . Bill, the owner of the site repairs and restores many different models of Dual turntables (BTW, they made idler, belt, and direct drive models) and always has some for sale. Expect to pay around $400 or so, and he does a great job of packing for shipment. Now a word about higher end brands like Empire, Micro-Seiki, Bang & Olufsen: while very good will cost more, and parts are sometimes hard to get, if they need repairs. B&O, in particular use only their own cartridges and replacement styli are difficult to get and costly when you can get them. Empire is your best bet there; they have excellent performance and are well built, some models go for over $1,000 on eBay on a regular basis. Don't count out anything though, bargains can be found, and there are lots of folks on here to advise you.

 

If you aren't committed to buying vintage, the Orbit should be a significant upgrade to the LP60 and at a starting price of $179 it isn't a big cash layout for someone just starting to explore vinyl.

I've never owned one but Mikey likes it.
http://www.analogplanet.com/content/u-turn’s-remarkable-179-orbit-turntable-crosley-killer

 

The conundrum for me is I'm not "committed" to vinyl (meaning my primary means are FLACS) however, the vinyl I do have is usually rare/hard to find so I actually need to treat them better than regular with whatever set-up I get, despite probably not using it as much. I'll need something that rips the vinyl to digital, as well as playing nice with my rig and taking care of the vinyl itself. Exhausting search. The more I read, the more I freak out (and expect to spend more.)

 

Hi There, I got back into LP records about 15 year ago, my previous (and only) turntable was a plastic Dual belt drive with a SHURE v15 Type III cartridge back in 1972. I did not know what I had until I restarted again back around 1999. I got an old AR-ES1 turntable from a friends basement and cleaned it up, it had a strait black light weight tone arm with no cartridge, I was starting cheap so I bought less than $90 cartridge - can't remember by whom. I mounted it, made all the settings and started to play the few records I managed to save from my first collection. They all sounded 'flat' and uninteresting, no depth like I though I remembered. I tried different weights from 1 gram to 3 grams, checked for anti skate, alignment, vertical height, changed mats, nothing seemed to help. I was new to eBay back then but I found a SHURE v15 type III with no stylus and bought it for around $60. I found a bought a no name stylus for another $15 and got it all mounted. On the next play it was like a whole new world suddenly developed out of my speakers, Highs and lows, depth and feeling were back! Over the years after I tried some other cartridges just cause folks told me they were better than my old SHURE. Not a single one of them compared to the SHURE v15 type III. OK now I have three turntables, all with SME 3009 tone arms and all with SHURE v15 type III cartridges! They all sound wonderful and they all track like they are glued into the groves, I live on a boat and I can play any of these turntable while at dock even in thunder storms and they never have left the track being played. All are set to just a little over 1 gram, all anti skating adjustments are done using the blank smooth side of a Demo LP. I have 12 SHURE v15 Type III cartridges all mounted in decent head shells, mostly SME, all with new stylus and ready to use in any of my turntables at a moments notice, some have $15 generic stylus, some have Ed Saunders Stylus in them - they all play nice and track with perfection. I never paid more than $100 for any of my cartridges a few were only about $60, it took me a few years to collect them all but it has been worth it. Try again they are out there if you look enough. Also I never got a Bad one, some were quite dirty but they all cleaned up nice.

Cheers,

 

When buying vintage, everything other than direct drive will require servicing. The safest purchase is a direct drive, Technics being the most popular brand.

The quality of service makes all the difference in the world, since some garage techs do more damage along the way, ie: stripped screw heads, do not properly spray and dry the bearings with compressed air before lubing which decreases longevity, (just wiping it clean is NOT good) or apply the wrong lubes in the wrong places, and maladjusted. Consider the Dual 1200 series: I purchased a refurbished Dual 1215 online when I was working for IBM, because I didn't want to take the time to do it myself (I restore these) After paying $250.00 for a cleaned lubed and tested 1215, I had to do everything over again.. multiple issues. The guy applied lube to the arm return pawl, so the arm would not return all the way to rest (a small plastic button does this, no lube here) The cueing wasn't right as the arm failed to float properly to the record. (insufficient silicone oil, or the wrong oil applied) The pitch control was stiff, and slow start up of the platter, then a delayed "jerk" as the platter started up. (an unrestored, unmolested table would have been cheaper) The table was ultra clean, but ended up refurbishing it myself. Duals sound wonderful when restored to spec, and will provide dependable service for decades.

 

You may not have to spend more than you can comfortably afford. Just a Technics direct drive for apprx $150.00 will do the job, plus perhaps a Shure M-97xe cartridge at about $85.00. For example, the Technics SL-D202 can be found at a fraction of the cost of the SL-1200, and sounds just as good. The turntable and cartridge hold their value, not throw away items. You can resell at a future date to recover your cost.

 

Me as well. It led me to believe that LPs were an inherently compromised format for another 15 years after that. I thought a well-made cassette would always be superior.

 

I've been tempted by Direct Drive turntables since their inception many decades ago, still all three that I currently own are belt drive, none have ever had problems with the drive component, most of the problems were sonic and suspension.
My AR-ES1 was so resonant that I tore it down to the plinth and filled it with layered glued plywood, I also embedded Oak set in epoxy to the underside of the 'T" frame. Once reassembled it was completely different and much more enjoyable. I also added stronger suspension springs, a ruby bearing ball and rubber tone arm platform isolators. Some day I hope to redo the RCA cables as the SME electronics are junk.
My SYSYEMDEK II arrived in original but unplayable condition - the springs were so light that just tying to place the stylus into the groves of a record sent the platter in all directions. It now has Thorens springs in it and is steady as a rock, sounds fantastic!
My Thorens TD125 is next in line - it took me five years to find someone in Germany that could make the little rubber suspension plugs for the top of the springs - I have them now along with a NOS sub platter and bearing assembly, not that the old one needs replacing but why not. My biggest problem is weather to make a new plinth or not - the old one is functional but the veneer is coming off.
Still projects are what keep me going so I am happy...
Cheers,

 

Nice compliment of turntables, I wouldn't want a direct drive since that would certainly be a downgrade. I am a believer in weighty, massive plinths, although I recall a member who claims that isn't the road to turntable nirvana. (He observed that only the platter needs mass) The direct drives are ideal for someone breaking into vinyl, maintenance free, and they sound decent. The trouble with low end belt drive is their tendency to run fast as the belt stretches, then eventually slip. Belt replacement isn't a problem, but speed accuracy can be an issue.

 

This is a test to see if I can get my photos to work in this forum...

http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/mtgray1/slideshow/Turntables/Thorens TD125 Original

If it works you will be able to see my Thorens TD125 turntable at first setup with SME 3009 tonearm.

Cheers

 

Hi folks,

Well PhotoBucket does work!

This link will take you to a slide show of my AR-ES1 turntable plinth rebuild, it was messy but a complete success in removing the resonance this turntable suffered from...Glad I kept my 18" wood cutting band saw! All the plywood was 13 layer birch with Oak veneer left over from a furniture project.

http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/mtgray1/slideshow/Turntables/AR-ES1

Enjoy

 

Use the very bottom link when you copy and paste it from PB
edit: nm...didn't realize it was a slideshow

 

Hi Vinyl Addict,

I am still new to this thanks for the tip. I have managed to photograph many of my restorations and speaker projects, using the slide show feature seemed the best way to show a collection of photos.

Cheers,

PS I'm doing my best to keep my 500 disc LP collection but living on a boat does not help!

 

Yikes beware of water damage! Haha

 

Getting back where all this started, my first good stereo was a Zenith Allegro system with the Micro-Touch arm; I used it for at least 10 years and STILL have and use the speakers. The Micro-Touch really was as gentle on records as the ads claimed, and I have only kind things to say about it ...except... changing that spring-loaded stylus was a pain in the ass! You had to make sure that little spring was securely tucked under the ridge beneath the point where the knob fit on. Just pushing the knob down over the spring, which a lot of people did, was N.G. I still remember leaning in there with an eyeglass screwdriver...and if the compressed spring flew off, God only knew where it might land!
The quality of Zenith's own styluses (stylii??) could be variable too. For years they repackaged E-V's as their own, which were uniformly good; then they switched to Pfanstiehls, which were often lousy. I got lucky; found by accident an old Zenith dealer who was retiring, and he sold me all his E-V spares for two bucks each; I had enough to last for years. For a long time now, I've had a Sony turntable, a second-hand Kenwood amp, and those Zenith speakers; maybe not the highest-end outfit, but I'm very happy.

 

A while ago i bought a NOS Acutex 312 catridge at auction. If i got the facts right it's a 70's cartridge.

It has a Tri-Radial needle.. Anyone knows what this is?

Never ever have i tried a cartridge that can track as good as this, it sinply tracks anything! Sounds good too!

Using it on my Rega RP1

 

P.S. A note! The Zenith Micro-Touch arm and cartridge system was designed by Zenith Radio Corporation and by CBS Laboratories in a joint collaboration and introduced in 1962. Changers made by Zenith (the top end belt/idler drive changer made to 1967) and by VM Corporation used this system. Pye in England also used the cartridge and labeled it as the Pye Butterfly. Which was used on the Pye Achoic Box stereo phono also sold as a CBS product. This system tracked at 2 grams, very accurately, and with low distortion and record wear. A pity no all in ones can perform to this level made since VM went defunct. Zenith used this system up to 1976 in most everything they made with a record changer.

 

Isn't this the same turntable that the Brady Bunch had in their den?