SH Spotlight Newbies getting started playing vinyl, please avoid mistracking & resulting groove damage!!!

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Steve Hoffman, Dec 12, 2009.

  1. marcfeld69

    marcfeld69 Forum Resident

    I'm quite confused by the categories. Maybe these are just down to brand names but are Micro Line, Micro Ridge, Van den Hull etc. in a category different from Micro Line/Fine Line? I have an AT95e and a Denon DL-110.
     
  2. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your Host Your Host Thread Starter

    Great "one-microphone" record.
     
    kozy814, McLover and The FRiNgE like this.
  3. Electric

    Electric The Medium is the Massage

    Location:
    Vancouver, CANADA
    Maybe this is the place to ask this? In the early 70's I had a Dual turntable with a Danish cartridge which might have been a B&O SP-12. It would drive me crazy whenever I played Sticky Fingers and the opening guitar of Brown Sugar would come on, and there'd be bursts of distortion around the opening notes only. I never knew why. I assume mistracking? I can never hear that song without remembering that awful distortion.
     
  4. Beachtraveler

    Beachtraveler Active Member

    Location:
    Salem, OR
    Wait, so those who told me that elliptical was the way to go were full of ****? Damnit. I swapped out a conical for an elliptical based on that advice. I have a Technics SL-Q3 Quartz Lock Direct Drive automatic turntable with a Shure M44 cartridge, with a Jico elliptical stylus. Can anyone recommend a relatively inexpensive stylus to fit this setup? Also, while we're at it, a preamp? I got a self-labeled "cheapo TC-400"preamp with my current setup and wonder how much better it would sound with a better preamp (if at all).

    Rest of set up is a Denon AVR 2300W with Paradigm 7 v11 Monitor series towers, center channel, and Sub 10.
     
  5. 389 Tripower

    389 Tripower Forum Resident

    Location:
    Moline, IL USA
    I would use the Jico on Lp's, and put the original M44-7 or G conical (whichever you had) back on it for 7" 45 rpm singles.
    Doing that - you'll be good to go.
     
    McLover likes this.
  6. Klassik

    Klassik Forum Resident

    Location:
    United Kingdom
    The advice I'd give to anybody thinking about getting into vinyl or back into it is to do what experts did in the olde days which is to get into cassette.
    Just pop the new copy on the turntable, stick a Chrome cassette in and press the red button. That way you keep your vinyl in great shape and won't need to go shopping online for reissues when the internet revival starts.
    TOP TIP
     
    Shak Cohen and Fender Relic like this.
  7. EddieVanHalen

    EddieVanHalen Well-Known Member

    My record playing set up is cheap and humble but I think it's well matched. It's a Goldring GR-1 turntable (made by Rega) and a Denon Dl160 cart which I love how it sounds. I never imagined such a cheap combination could outperform an Oppo BDP-93 playing SACD's, I've tested it with Roxy Music's Avalon on LP record and Jap SHM-SACD, record wins.
    No mistracking and no inner groove distotion on the GR-1/Denon DL160.
     
  8. Beachtraveler

    Beachtraveler Active Member

    Location:
    Salem, OR
    Anyone else care to weigh in on the Jico stylus? I don't listen to 45s, so LP only use.....
     
  9. 389 Tripower

    389 Tripower Forum Resident

    Location:
    Moline, IL USA
    I don't have any Jico products - at least yet, but if you search the internet, and look through other relating threads, you will discover that Jico makes very good quality Styli. So as long as yours is in good condition and not worn, should be no problem.
     
  10. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your Host Your Host Thread Starter

    Dis!
     
  11. McLover

    McLover Forum Resident

    Location:
    East TN
    A note: Cartridge and tonearm must be complimentary to each other and match. Compliance and application matter. Sometimes cheaper cartridge on high end broadcast tonearm can out-track multi-thousand dollar cartridge on mismatched tonearm. Too many people buy high end expensive cartridge and install it in a tonearm which has no business using this. Some of the best record reproduction I've heard has been on broadcast tonearms like the Audio-Technica ATP 16-T and Shure M 44-7 cartridges or M 75 Type II EJ and I've heard high dollar moving coils and Shibatas with more distortion or tracking issues on tonearms unsuited to them. Match the cartridge and stylus to the tonearm and the records you play. Mistracking from mismatches is mistracking. Sometimes cheaper can be better. Sometimes better tonearm with less expensive cartridge tracks better with less distortion and no mistracking. Listen to reason and good skilled advice. I have over 45 years of know how in broadcast engineering (and much of this involves reliable tracking and playback of records in failure is no option environments in AM and FM broadcast environments, disco and night clubs, and physically challenged user applications). Never mistrack your record investment (You paid good money for them, why not make those records last you many years of pleasure) ?
     
  12. 389 Tripower

    389 Tripower Forum Resident

    Location:
    Moline, IL USA
    A couple of years ago I bought an "NOS" Stanton 680EL. (Mark II Version) all in original packaging. This is a "larger" elliptical at 4x7. I thought I'd try it out on my Dual-1219 with some 45's - especially the stereo ones from around '69 and up. It tracks from 2-5 grams or so, so I can auto-stack with it at 3.5g. Wow - Impressive! I think I may like it as much or maybe better than my Shure M35x, at least for stereo 45's. It does real well on styrene or vinyl, and sounds to have less inner groove pinch and a more balanced tone - maybe less "colored" than the Shure's.

    Problem is - replacement styli for the vintage Stanton's are getting hard to find, at least at a fair price.
     
    The FRiNgE and McLover like this.
  13. McLover

    McLover Forum Resident

    Location:
    East TN
    Very true on the stylus situation. I loved and still love the Stanton 680 EL, and it's a very high performance, rugged cartridge which puts up with spastic me better than anything ever made. If I could get genuine styli, I'd use this option as my daily driver.
     
    389 Tripower likes this.
  14. McLover

    McLover Forum Resident

    Location:
    East TN
    Yes, and truer words have never been said in the field of record reproduction. Also, listen up! If your tonearm lacks VTA/SRA adjustments. AVOID using line contact, Shibata, StereoHedron, or other high end exotic tip shapes. You won't be able to get them optimized for best reproduction, best tracking, and least record wear. Like Steve's first good separates system, I own a Pioneer PL 12-D in one of my systems. I run a Shure M75 EJ on this tonearm (and this is well suited to that arm). I run conical tips as daily drivers. The Shure M 44-G is what I play most of my records on. And it is gentle to my collection and does not mistrack.
     
    dmckean likes this.
  15. McLover

    McLover Forum Resident

    Location:
    East TN
    Yes, every day in many tonearms which track well that low of tracking forces. If not, the M 44-7 works great. I use these every day and my records last many years on a properly set up arm. McLover's Law: The budget cartridge you can afford new styli for often and does not mistrack, is the one you need when you must watch your cash outlay. These cartridges are rugged, track great, genuine styli are easily had for cheap. What the budget vinylphile needs and also what the vinylphile who needs rugged (I am physically challenged, have spasticity and muscles without an off switch, I need rugged and good and no mistracking). I need flat and accurate too and consistent. These Shure options I use daily. My standards are high, and I demand professional grade. Shure delivers the goods. My records live long, sound great. I am happy!
     
    MLutthans likes this.
  16. McLover

    McLover Forum Resident

    Location:
    East TN
    Yes, and real fast. Mistrack once, damaged forever. Ceramic cartridge of low quality, CHECK! Poor quality CRUDE tonearm, CHECK. Jensen used to be a good quality brand especially in loudspeakers. Not now!
     
  17. jazon

    jazon Forum Resident

    Location:
    ottawa
    When I set up my turntable (technics sl-q2, shure m92e cartridge), i just did everything by eye basically. Never used protractors or anything and I never get any kind of mistracking or distortion. I hope I am not damaging my records without knowing it though. Thinking of upgrading to a 2M red or blue in the near future. I think the m92e sounds good but i don't really have much to compare it to.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
  18. McLover

    McLover Forum Resident

    Location:
    East TN
    I can do my Technics like yours by eye and get it close, but this is from having set up so many. I check my work against a protractor, as that confirms it is where it needs to be.
     
  19. Mr_Vinyl

    Mr_Vinyl Forum Resident

    Do your records still sound the same (like new) after years of playing? If so, you may be lucky, but it doesn't hurt to get the measuring tools - just in case. At the very least, you can print out different protractors, or have it adjusted at a reputable store once in a while.
     
  20. jazon

    jazon Forum Resident

    Location:
    ottawa
    I've never noticed anything but who know..What are the recommended tools?
     
  21. Mr_Vinyl

    Mr_Vinyl Forum Resident

    Here's a link. You can start here if you want. Before you do anything, make sure your table is level by using a leveller (the one with the bubble you can get at any hardware store). All the changes are moot if yout tt is slanted.
    A Beginner’s Guide to Cartridge Setup
     
  22. Ghostworld

    Ghostworld Forum Resident

    Location:
    US

    God bless, KAB. Knowledgeable, well stocked, fairly priced. Everything great about that site. Love him and TurntableNeedles.
     
  23. Ghostworld

    Ghostworld Forum Resident

    Location:
    US
    I tried that line and I didn't like it either. Now VINTAGE Shure is a whole 'nuther story!
     
  24. boggs

    boggs Multichannel Machiavellian

    I used to hate setting up a stylus. Years ago I got a Laser Turntable. There are no adjustments to make ever. And although they are expensive and have quirks inherent with their operation, I love having extremely clear inner grooves on the final track on a lp or 45 single.
     
    lukpac likes this.
  25. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    I'm still curious to hear that, especially with a few problematic records of mine.
     

Share This Page