Nick Drake: My interview with Cally, Head of Nick Drake's Estate

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by butch, Jun 8, 2010.

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  1. butch

    butch Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    ny
    Cally(Martin Callomon): Sleeve Designer, Manager, Musician and executor of Nick Drake's estate

    Cally talks abut Nick Drake, Julian Cope and Chris Blackwell.


    Who were your musical heroes growing up and who were your favorite bands?

    Nice to start with the easy answers: I had, what turned out to be, a lifelong affinity to The Four Tops, Family, Amon Duul II, The Can, Faust, Popol Vuh, The Groundhogs, Roxy Music, Burning Spear, The Beatles, The Pink Floyd, The Congos, to name just the ‘bands’.

    Who inspired you to play the drums? Who was your favorite drummer?

    In my pub we have a perpetual argument surrounding what may be termed as ‘source musicians’
    These are the ones around whom all others revolve.
    They may not be the best known or the highest paid.
    Simply put: when they started to write or perform, all playing of the respective instrument changed.
    I know I’ll get crucified for this, but, when it comes to drummers it’s a bit like novels: there are only X numbers of novels and all other exist because of these.
    Steve Gadd is not one of these drummers (best get this out of the way first) Why not? Because of Jim Gordon.
    Sitting next to Jim is Jaki Leibezeit (sit down Tony Allen) Uriel Jones and Carlton Barrett.
    After them, all modern drumming took shape. Much as I admire Paul Thompson, Bill Bruford, John Bonham and the underrated Ringo Starr....
    ...no Motown – no Starr. Let battle commence.

    I was nowhere near a good enough drummer, (every time I played a Traffic album I was painfully reminded of this fact.)

    What led you to go to art school ?

    All my favourite bands seem to have come from Art School. I don’t know if they still do.
    I was at Watford Art School at the same time as Wire who should be in the list in question one, (but I had ‘grown up’ by then). Peter Schmidt and Hansjorg Meyer were head of the course and we had amazing visiting lecturers: Brian Eno, Russell Mills, Eduardo Paolozzi, Tom Phillips, Marc Boyle, Dieter Roth to name a famous few.

    You became an aficionado of sleeve design. Who are some of your favorite album designers? What do you think of Simon Halfon's work? Storm Thorgerson?

    ...My favourite sleeves were designed by Robert Brownjohn (Let It Bleed) and Richard Hamilton (The Beatles) but I also loved the Vertigo sleeves by Keith McMillan (Keef) and many, many German sleeves, especially ‘Tanz Der Lemminge’ by F.U. & F.J. Rogner They made the bands look like I ought to join them. Or that they ought to, at least, let me join.
    I don’t know Simon Halfon’s work, and used to think that Roger Dean only got away with it under the undiscipline of 12 square inches (or twelve square feet when it came to Yes!) His talents lie beyond mere ‘sleeve’ design, though.


    You designed sleeves for artists as well. Which ones stand out as your favorites?

    ...the first Tricky album, the Mark Hollis album, The O:Rang albums, my co-work with P.J. Harvey, the Achtung Baby campaign for U2, Nick Drake’s ‘Family Tree’ compilation and, perhaps, both Kaiser Chiefs albums.

    What your your first job at a record company like?

    ...I did everything for anyone and got paid cash. I had no pride whatsoever, worked long hours, was greatly exploited and loved every minute of it. One can (and ought to) at 25 years old.

    What led you to leave and start managing Julian Cope? What was he like?

    ...my first proper job at the Phonogram record company was as a ‘Product Manager’, I was given a roster of artists to learn on and they gave me the difficult, the has-beens, the weak, the strange and the barmy: Test Department, Marc Almond, Stevo, Bob Geldof’s Boomtown Rats, David Essex, Elton John, Palais Schaumberg (my favourite) The Teardrop Explodes, some awful American ‘New Wave’ acts etc etc. I decided to manage the most sane of the lot (Cope) as he and I shared an affinity for die-cast toy cars and mid 1960s American-Gothic Garage bands. He was also my best friend. We mixed work and love. A bad idea.

    You designed sleeves for artists as well. Which ones stand out as your favorites?

    ...at that time I did ‘Fried’ for Julian Cope that took a lot of beating, plus I compiled and designed ‘Boy Child’ by Scott Walker, I enjoyed that immensely

    You've played with various bands. Which one was your favorite project? Tea Set? The Remayns?

    ...I enjoyed playing with Nikki Sudden the most. Swell Maps were by far my favourite band of the time and he and I had a band called Bingo Little after he left Swell Maps. Swell Maps were quite like dEUS, and just as adventurous. I was not a very good drummer, which suited Nikki fine. Then there was my stint ‘playing’ with O:Rang, the hugely underrated rhythm section from Talk Talk. The Tea Set sort of fell into becoming ‘She Sherrif’ a Malcolm McLaren piece of Country and Western whimsy and drummers were expected to keep time in those tape-looped days.
    I greatly enjoyed playing out of time too much.

    You later became an A&R man for Warner Bros, who did you discover and who did you handle?

    ...A and R never discovers anything, it merely makes louder what already exists. Any A and R person who fools him or herself into thinking that they have ‘made’ a group only ever ends in disaster, do ask them. Ironically, (considering my relationship now) I took over the same job vacated by Bill Drummond. I was given Matt Bianco to look after and enjoyed that more than any of my direct signings apart from, maybe, The Grid.
    A and R is a terrible, terrible job to hold down, soul destroying, about as bad and as shameless as being a journalist.
    I learned a lot and had a great time at someone else’s expense, (a great foolish expense and unnecessary wastage).
    I was also, gratifyingly, no good at the job.

    You then went over to Island records for nearly a decade. What did the job entail and what were some of your favorite artists on Island during that time ?

    ...I started at Island when it was in its blackest period, lost adrift with hopeless pop acts. I was part of a new breed, I became creative director, and we re-built the company from the ground up, playing to Island’s strengths. Everything seemed to take off: P.M. Dawn, the rebirth of U2, P. J. Harvey, Tricky, Andy Shepherd, The Disposable Heroes Of Hiphoprisy were the ones I enjoyed the most, then there were The Cranberries, The Stereo MCs, Pulp, Lee Perry, plus all that beautiful catalogue

    How did you get along with Chris Blackwell founder of Island ? Did you see him as a maverick or a visionary of sorts?


    ..At times Chris played down his roll in the shaping of the company, but I saw how his influence, attitude and approach spread amongst all departments. Even though PolyGram were bankrolling the company, Chris had a habit of making you feel you were spending his, or your own, money. It sharpened instinct and encouraged risks. Though mainly abroad, Chris was involved on a daily basis, and he always had ‘his’ staff there. His input grew less when we became so successful as he was good at letting people get on with it. It tended to put you on the spot though, rather than let you get away with anything.
    I detect his attitude in a lot of small labels now: a very, very good thing. That’s why the industry is in such rude health right now and why music is so exciting.

    You got involved packing and releasing some of Island's least successful acts sales wise like John Cale, Sandy Denny, John Martyn and Nick Drake. These artists exemplified quality music but didn't move records. What kind of expectations did you have to increase sales? And what was your strategy to increase sales for these artists?

    Island did not have a traditional ‘marketing’ department, Chris was not a fan of ‘Best-Of’ compilations and he scotched my idea of a Nick Drake compilation, Joe Boyd was keen to compile it and we both thought that there was a new young market in need of a single-CD way to get into Nick (a Way To Blue).
    When I presented the idea not as a single CD but as a library of 5 titles (John Cale, John Martyn, Sandy Denny, Nick Drake and one other I forget) he liked that. The series was successful as people collected all five and there was barely a ‘hit’ in sight on any. PolyGram liked the idea and released some 200 titles in this ‘Introduction To..’ series, even Tears For Fears.

    How did you ultimately become manager of the Nick Drake estate?

    ..the above Drake compilation sold well, then we had a the first version of the Radio 2 Documentary, then the film ‘A Skin Too Few’ and I was calling Gabrielle Drake every day and she was busy with her acting career, so I hit on the idea of managing a dead artist as if he wasn’t dead yet. About that time Island signed Paul Weller, Morrissey and Soul To Soul in one month and I knew it was time to leave ‘My work here is done’.

    What is your mission statement and philosophy for Nick's musical legacy?

    . .I don’t have such a thing. My motto is to listen to Nick and Gabrielle, to act as if Nick were still alive, and to say ‘No’ more often than ‘yes’.


    What did you think about the original Nick Drake CDs that were released?


    ..The ones that came out to co-incide with Island’s 25th Anniversary sounded pretty terrible and ‘Road;’ was called ‘Radio’ and the sleeves were terribly reproduced. So we re-mastered them and these new ones are still on sale. John Wood and Simon Heyworth did a splendid job, I think.

    How involved were you in the remastering process and the design of the second wave of Nick Drake's original albums on CD ?

    ..I acted as a ‘series producer’ ensuring Island put the right amount of money into the process, which was not hard. I designed the sleeves as well, and made a few mistakes with the lyrics! I take full credit for that.

    In terms of working with Joe Boyd, John Wood and Simon Heyworth how closely do you all work together in terms of the process of remastering and/or mixing one of the original albums and the compilations?


    ..I think we all work closely and well, there are really no egos and no boundaries. Joe Boyd listens carefully, John and Simon go into minute detail, I have been amazingly privileged to see them in action and get involved, these are not ‘normal’ people, you understand.

    The Made To Love Magic compilation included new string arrangements by Robert Kirby. How integral was he to Nick's sound and how happy were you with the new arrangements that he had done for the compilation ?

    .. I must correct you here! These were not ‘new’ arrangements. These were the original arrangements he never got to record back in the day. Robert still had them all carefully written out. It was that fact that spurred us on.
    Robert was a deeply complex, yet simple soul. He was a joy to work with and a joy to be in the same room with. His musical palette was nearly as broad as Joe’s and that’s saying something.
    A tiny vocal few of Nick’s fans don’t seem to want to allow Nick the credit for choosing to work with these three renegades.
    Nick had a choice: always, and appeared to be disciplined and strict about his choices. He could easily have rejected John Cale’s work as he rejected Richard Hewson’s. I hope more people will credit Nick for his own intuitive orienteering.

    How and where was Tow The Line(that was from the Made To Love Magic compilation) found?

    ..John Wood had stored a safety copy of Nick’s last five recordings, even though Island thought them destroyed. The first five songs made up side A of Nick’s fourth album, they just never got ‘round to mixing song five: Tow The Line. We only heard it when Joe ran the tape up, he had forgotten about it (possibly). John was not a great fan of any of these last songs, but, as they had mostly already been out, he wanted to do Nick justice with the mix and sound of it. Who better to do this than the producer of ‘Pink Moon’?

    How do you feel about some of the Nick Drake covers that people have done? Paul Weller for example did River Man.

    .. At Joe Boyd’s recent ‘Way To Blue’ concerts there was a great variety of covers and little consensus with anyone as to clear favourites. Therein lies the the nature of it all. Each ‘cover’ appeals to a separate listener. A very good thing. Personally, I think one has to go a long way to beat Monkeyworks version of ‘Black Eyed Dog’ or the original instrumental cover of ‘Cello Song’ by The Books (no offence to Jose Gonzales) when Nick’s voiced is replaced by a woman’s voice or an instrument, when genres are hopped, I prefer those. I love Becky Unthank’s River Man as a result, it’s as black as the night.

    How did the Family Tree project come about? Was it remarkable to you that Molly had such an influence on her son's music?

    ..The birth of Family Tree was really to try and make something dignified out of the home tapes. In my opinion, the bootlegs really are exploitive, horribly packaged, appallingly mastered and some of the tracks are an American guitarist imitating Nick!
    I loved the ‘Roots’ album by The Everly Brothers and this became my bench-mark. I wanted the album to sound and play like a Radio Ballad. It took years to put together. It was Joe Boyd who first exposed the Molly/Nick match. I am busy mastering 14 of her songs and typing out 60 of her poems so that we can release a little private pressing from the website as so many of Nick’s fans seem interested. Molly was a true artist in her own right - what a family!

    What did you think when you first heard Nick's music back in the early Seventies? What are some of your favorite Nick Drake tunes?

    ..I’m afraid I took Nick’s songs too much for granted when I first heard them in the early 1970s. I had the albums as they were on Island, and loved them but it was re-hearing ‘Cello Song in late 1976 that made me really sit up. I was pretty unimpressed by The Clash and was on my own unfashionable journey of musical discovery.
    Still don’t like The Clash much.
    In 1976 I also got Dylan’s first album, that was my ‘punk rock explosion’.

    Marketing wise how do you decide where to use Nick's music in terms of licensing? The Volkswagen commercial featuring Pink Moon created quite a demand for Nick's music in the United States.

    ..Success has many parents. I have lost count on the amount of people who claim that one as theirs! It was not mine.
    VolksWagen were brave at the time, they decided against the usual AOR fodder and plumped for unknown music.
    They way I see it: no radio station, bar John Peel in his day, would ever touch Nick Drake, not whilst Nick was alive or after his death. Okay, I know there were a few exceptions, all with about 30 listeners it seems, but I got interested in music-use in films and adverts with all my managed acts soon after the VW success. Matt Johnson (The The) was totally against such use, but he was in the same position as Nick a bit. I could see no difference between a song of his played on a radio station owned by Ted Turner and released by the Sony Corporation and the same song being used to advertise a film.
    The former requires Sony to use HIS money to pay for the plays on the radio; the latter film company pays Matt for the use of his music.
    The same applies to Nick Drake: so you decide. Nick gained more new fans who saw Garden State or The Royal Tenenbaums.
    We may have slipped up a couple of times on some uses, but we try and make up for it with uses for good causes for free.

    Are there any future vinyl releases that will be done of Nick's work on audiophile vinyl mastered from the original master tapes? And would John Wood or Simon Heyworth be involved in such a remastering for LP ?


    ..we plan to realease all three studio albums on vinyl fairly soon. They will be the same John Wood masterings used for Fruit Tree and will definitely NOT be audiophile pressings. Personally I don’t get what the benefits with these are. ‘Audiophile’ seems to be a trick simply to charge a lot more for a format that never was designed to sound the way they do. Plus it gives the hyenas in the Hi-Fi press an excuse to compare Pink Moon with a Bon Jovi Audiophile pressing. Long live the cracks, pops, drop out and the benefits of a worn stylus. I mistrust the illusion of true Hi Fidelity in my life, never mind mere music.
     

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  2. ceddy10165

    ceddy10165 My life was saved by rock n roll

    Location:
    Avon, CT
    very interesting and unique interview -- thanks for sharing.
     
  3. butch

    butch Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    ny
  4. Jim B.

    Jim B. Senior Member

    Location:
    UK
    Nice.

    Good to hear they are re-releasing the vinyl as well.
     
  5. butch

    butch Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    ny
    Though the conditions for the remastering might be interpreted as rather dubious by some. I thought that would be the part of the interview that would prick up many ears and raise one's ire so to speak.....
     
  6. acjetnut

    acjetnut Senior Member

    Location:
    USA

    Yeah, although at least he's up front and honest about it.
     
  7. butch

    butch Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    ny
    I didn't say he wasn't being honest! :winkgrin: My perception is that many who post here wouldn't be pleased with the fact that the vinyl wouldn't be mastered, pressed and released under the optimal conditions,though.
     
  8. Mad shadows

    Mad shadows Forum Resident

    Location:
    Karlskrona- Sweden
    I´m going to read this when I have more time :)
     
  9. butch

    butch Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    ny
  10. Jim B.

    Jim B. Senior Member

    Location:
    UK
    I kinda like his honesty. I don't for one minute think he's going to put out sub standard product, he probably just doesn't see it as rocket science. After all the early Island pressings were not 'audiophile' quality but they can't be beaten for sound. He's old school when mastering an album was second nature and the engineers knew what they were doing.
     
  11. swedgin

    swedgin Forum Resident

    Location:
    Earth
    Interesting interview. I also appreciate his honesty regarding the vinyl reissues, certainly scorches endless speculation on the sources used and saves people some money. Disappointing though, can't think of another artist who would benefit more fidelity wise from a nice audiophile analogue remaster. The current CD's are fine, as in they are not loud or Nr'd but are light years away from the sound of the original vinyl.
     
  12. butch

    butch Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    ny
    I was impressed when he answered that question that way quite frankly. There was more juice to that answer than something akin to "just we're talking to all the boutique audio labels and its being mastered in analog etc so on", that would've been far more predictable to be sure. Unfortunately for those waiting for a Grundman/Hoffman/Gray/Britton remastering on 180 gm vinyl or Gold CD/SACD, it's not likely to happen judging from Cally's response.
     
  13. butch

    butch Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    ny

    Thanks. I enjoyed the original CDs but found the second wave to be decent as well. It was a case of a new light under different windows with the Cally supervised CDs. In essence, the original CDs weren't terrible at all and actually were quite excellent for what they were.
     
  14. swedgin

    swedgin Forum Resident

    Location:
    Earth
    I agree, a much more laid back mastering than the remasters, definitely my go to digital versions. Certainly doesn't sound like they used inferior tapes for the original CD's as has been claimed.
     
  15. butch

    butch Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    ny
    I agree with your assessment on the usage of the tapes for the first wave of CDs. Those CDs sound rather fine to my ears. I specifically asked the question regarding the original CDs just to see what Cally's opinion on the matter was firsthand. Of course, I disagree with him totally but it was fun to see his response just the same. He was honest there as well and his answer is arguably a very provocative one on the quality of the original CDs.
     
  16. Sneaky Pete

    Sneaky Pete Flat the 5 and That’s No Jive

    Location:
    NYC USA
    Interesting stuff from a different perspective. He has been a good steward of the Drake legacy.
     
  17. butch

    butch Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    ny
    SP, I wanted to get his side of the story . I had been doing interviews for The Style Council and Weller Threads and I just happened to sort of cross-pollinate between Nick Drake and Paul Weller at some point. So the interview was a happy accident of sorts. When Gabrielle Drake, Nick's sister and TV and film actress well known for the TV series UFO, couldn't do an interview, Cally was happy to oblige.
     
  18. swedgin

    swedgin Forum Resident

    Location:
    Earth
    You can see he's a Marketing man through and through.
     
  19. Jim B.

    Jim B. Senior Member

    Location:
    UK
    You can't really expect him to say anything else though, given that he was in charge of replacing the old cd's with the new ones. Of course he's going to say the old one's needed replacing.

    It's just the way record companies operate isn't it, release a new version ever few years to flog some more. I do wonder what the oldest cd's (for any major artist) still in print are? I got The Free Story recently and that sounds fantastic.
     
  20. butch

    butch Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    ny
    From what I understand Volkswagen wanted to initially use The Church's Under The Milky Way for the commercial. I like the song BUT they went to the artist that was an influence on The Church instead! A brilliant move in my opinion because Drake started to sell albums in America without the benefit of any significant airplay to speak of.
     
  21. swedgin

    swedgin Forum Resident

    Location:
    Earth
    Apologies if I was a bit vague in my last post, I didn't mean it as a criticism that he was a marketing man through and through. I would expect nothing less of him to say the old ones needed replacing. The one thing about the new remasters and the latest Fruit Tree box is they are beautifully packaged, but clearly not marketed at the audiophile, which they are very upfront about.
     
  22. butch

    butch Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    ny
    I never perceived it as a veiled or overt critique at all. Very well said. It's part of the business to hype the new product to the detriment of the old one. Doesn't anyone remember the slogan of perfect sound forever?
     
  23. DJ WILBUR

    DJ WILBUR The Cappuccino Kid

    nice to see someone come clean about A&R. cool read...
     
  24. krlpuretone

    krlpuretone Forum Resident

    Location:
    Grantham, NH
    Glad he hates "audiophiles" so much that he wants to make the albums sound like ****.

     
  25. butch

    butch Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    ny

    I knew that the audiophile brigade would come out in full force! You go boy....:laugh:
     
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