Non philes/music lovers and the cost of audio ? ? ?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Tim 2, Jul 19, 2015.

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  1. BSC

    BSC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Glasgow, Scotland
    Be interested to see/hear what your 10K+ system's components are.......
     
  2. Chooke

    Chooke Forum Resident

    Location:
    Perth, Australia
    Sure, it has chopped and changed over the years... Currently, nad CD player, Linn lp12 table with dynavector dv xxii mkii cartridge, Yamaha cx1 pre amp, Yamaha MX1 monoblocs, sound dynamics cm 1500 speakers, mid range pioneer cassette deck.
     
  3. BSC

    BSC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Glasgow, Scotland
    Just to clarify what the aim is when building a system......I've never bought the notion you are really trying to recreate the sound of live music at all.

    Recorded music has it's own sound as you build your system you know the sound of your favourite recordings. That's always your benchmark where you end up is where your recordings sound better than you've ever heard them.

    Now of course once you start to hear "scale" coming back at you then yes there are comparisons with live music, related to that you can get realism that makes you think instruments sound in the room but even then that's not quite the same.

    The experiences I have had moving up the ladder with various systems is that you gather more aspects of what is on recordings and what reproduced music can create on better equipment. Scale, realism, solidity in imaging, tonal balance. a 3D aspect and placement in space of instruments in space and of course hearing detail in recordings in a much clearer fashion.....

    The reality is though just as our own collection of recordings is unique to us or pretty close to it so is the route we take in what we enjoy in how that music is reproduced. In the main it is quite an individual quest and the results are almost entirely independent-very few audiophiles will have exactly the same systems and none of them have the same rooms.....the journey is very individual as is the end result.
     
  4. BSC

    BSC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Glasgow, Scotland
    I think then your comparison is a bit off you've basically added in a lot of extra components when comparing the two systems. My point being your new digital system when compared to your old system is probably not much cheaper if you exclude the extras in the old system. And age is an issue is well. I beat a £3000 CD player the Ayre CX-7 with an Oppo 105 for a third of the price but that was some 8/9 years later. Amps and speakers when they are well matched tend to be pretty robust over time.
     
  5. csgreene

    csgreene Forum Resident

    Location:
    Idaho, USA
    I like your opening comment. I've never had the goal of trying to recreate a live setting. I just want to get the best detail I can out of recordings whether on vinyl, CD, tape, or digital streamed files with gear I can afford. When I want to hear live music, I go hear live music. When I want to hear studio and live recordings, I listen at home. As both a piano player and guitar player for most of my life who's played many gigs from rock bands to acoustic guitar and jazz gigs, I feel I have a pretty good sense of what I want and need to hear from my audio system/s at home. I also listen at a lower volume than a live gig's volume.
     
  6. Chooke

    Chooke Forum Resident

    Location:
    Perth, Australia
    Sure points taken. The main extras in the older system are the amps, turntable and cassette deck. The newer system doesn't have a CD player, turntable or the amps, but it has a digital streamer in its place. The cassette deck was around the 500 dollar mark. The main savings were achieved by going through the active speakers route as it eliminated the need for separate pre and main amps and a separate dac. Dollar for dollar actives will always give a superior sound compared to all separates.
     
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  7. Chooke

    Chooke Forum Resident

    Location:
    Perth, Australia
    So what you are saying is you're after a signature sound. Nothing wrong with that as we all have our preferences. For me, I prefer getting as close to the source sound as possible. When you do, detail comes naturally, rather than contrived or exaggerated. Perhaps it is a legacy of many years of studio work. It is also a bane. Poorly recorded or mastered music doesn't sound good on this set up (the older one does better in this regard), but play something that has been produced well, like the black triangle DSOTM, and it is bliss.
     
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  8. BSC

    BSC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Glasgow, Scotland
    I don't think I'm looking for a signature sound at all, I don't think I had a plan-I think the only brand I've shown genuine loyalty to is Proac-I've had every type of amp going apart from Class D and variants. That's part of my point you just set off and end up somewhere. There are also massive limitations in terms of what equipment you can dem or have access to. You make choices and move on-I built my latest system around my speakers but it wasn't impossible I could have bought different speakers to start with.

    I think there is a sound I prefer-at least in my head-getting as much detail and realism out of my recordings and always sounding musical-I suspect 99% of us would say that....
     
  9. Tim 2

    Tim 2 MORE MUSIC PLEASE Thread Starter

    Location:
    Alberta Canada
    Well, we set-up the little system at my buddies this past weekend and although they seemed to like the sound I got the impression they weren't totally overwhelmed.
    Tonight they called and asked if my other friend would allow the ( $2000 ) for sale speakers to be auditioned within there premises. Will work on that tomorrow.
     
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  10. Jim G.

    Jim G. Geezer with a nice stereo!

    When you consider the cost per hour of entertainment. A sound system, even an expensive one is really cheap. I have an old Audio-Research amp that I'd have to dig up the paper work to remember how much it cost. It was a stretch at the time. I remember driving an old used Dodge Colt. to get it at the dealers.
     
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  11. BSC

    BSC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Glasgow, Scotland
    I remember boxing up my Ayre kit for collection a couple of years ago as part of a trade in and thinking wow over 10 years enjoyment from these two chunks of metal- I felt like I was saying goodbye to two old friends-can you really put a price on that?
     
    apesfan and Tim 2 like this.
  12. ls35a

    ls35a Forum Resident

    Location:
    Eagle, Idaho
    The overwhelming majority of people do not like music enough to just sit and listen to it.

    They are into their home theater, their game consoles, their personal computers, their laptops, their ipads, their cell phones. Their boats, their jet-skis, their dirt-bikes, their snowmobiles, and on and on.

    Who has time to listen to music when all those toys are waiting to be played with?

    Music competes with other hobbies and things to do and it doesn't win for most people.

    35 years ago I was a hi fi salesman. I used to tell my co-workers that our competition was not the other stereo store down the street. Our competition was a skiing vacation or a new tv.

    The first VCR was the death-knell of the hi-fi business as we had known it.
     
    ukrules, Chooke and clhboa like this.
  13. soundQman

    soundQman Senior Member

    Location:
    Arlington, VA, USA
    Well, in general terms I don't really care much what stuff people are into instead of hi-fi. It's their loss if they can't dig it. However, I want there to be enough interest and sales to keep the audio companies producing good stuff at semi-reasonable prices and then maintaining and servicing their products so I can enjoy them for another 25 years or so. After that I'll probably be dead and really won't care at all.
     
    apesfan likes this.
  14. csgreene

    csgreene Forum Resident

    Location:
    Idaho, USA
    My wife is one who doesn't understand just listening. She'll sit at a live gig and pay attention but at home, nope. My kids don't just listen either. They both have MP3 players which seem to follow them everywhere but one only keeps one ear bud in (so he gets just one channel) so he can be aware of what else is going on.

    Me, I just veg out and simply listen doing nothing else a good part of the time. Music is almost always on. I prefer it to most TV (but that doesn't count old movies).
     
  15. Tullman

    Tullman Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston MA
    I wonder how many people actually have decent 5.1 surround systems. I believe most people are just streaming movies on their computer.
     
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  16. Tim 2

    Tim 2 MORE MUSIC PLEASE Thread Starter

    Location:
    Alberta Canada
    There are many folks that don't want to just sit and listen to music, I wonder if it has something to do with the system. I have a hard time believing that most folks wouldn't enjoy the undiminished texture and clarity of a Cello that appears directly in from of them or the full weight and impact of an orchestral bass drum. I melt when I hear the flow, momentum and drive that leaves me no option but to communicate with a recording.
     
  17. tim185

    tim185 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Australia
    Most people today just dont have the attention span. My partner will veg out in front of the TV, but thinks just sitting and listening is a bit weird, even though she likes music.
     
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  18. Bromo33333

    Bromo33333 Forum Resident

    Good analogy -- I do see a lot of people and hear of them that have a "dedicated listening room" ... I always wonder how much it is actually listened to, and how much it is gathering dust as a family progressed through their afternoons and evenings.

    The best decision I ever did regarding the stereo was to drag it right into the living room, and relegating the TV to tan alcove (with applauding from my wife!). We listen to music more and it sounds much better than otherwise.

    And music you listen to is the best sound reproduction of all, in all honesty. You can spend more money and get more, but you really have to reconcile what amounts to an indulgent luxury to your budget and desires.
     
  19. Bromo33333

    Bromo33333 Forum Resident

    I think music has grown in meaning to everyone. I think everyone likes music and always has, but a lot of people like to have music playing while they do other things.

    IN my house, we have a couple of things: We've got Sonos in nearly every room for this "wallpaper" and we have a main stereo. The way it is set up, we can enjoy it both ways. And in the area with the stereo we have our computers, so if we want to be able to do things on them and listen to music as intently as we care to, we can, or if we want to drift into wallpaper we can as well.

    I don't think there is any "right" way to enjoy music. And I agree with you - a lot of folks don't want to sit down and listen as if they were at a performance.
     
    Tim 2 likes this.
  20. Dennis0675

    Dennis0675 Hyperactive!

    Location:
    Ohio
    I have gone to 30 to 50 concerts a year for the past 25 years. My sole reason for getting into equipment was to try and replicate that experience at home.

    I feel like I have done a pretty good job and then I went to a stones concert and understand again that it can't be done.

    With growing satisfaction in my system and collection, I am saving money on going to concerts. Plane tickets for two can really add up fast.
     
    Tim 2 likes this.
  21. csgreene

    csgreene Forum Resident

    Location:
    Idaho, USA
    I think the closest one can get to a live performance would be recordings of one or two acoustic guitars, a small jazz group (4-5 guys playing acoustic instruments) or a small classical chamber group/quartet. Trying to replicate a live performance in a large venue by an orchestra or rock band at home is a tremendously difficult thing to do and I have yet to have heard a system that can accomplish it (not saying it can't be done if you have a proper space, acoustic treatments, and an over the top system).
     
  22. Tim 2

    Tim 2 MORE MUSIC PLEASE Thread Starter

    Location:
    Alberta Canada
    Agreed, recorded music will never sound like live but how close can we get ? More importantly does the playback system allow us to fully engage with the music we enjoy ?
     
  23. Dennis0675

    Dennis0675 Hyperactive!

    Location:
    Ohio
    I think you are dead on accurate about acoustic music, I listen to a lot of it both live and at home, primarily, jazz influence bluegrass. When talking about an acoustic instrument playing into a microphone (vs. a pickup of some sort) you can get an outstanding degree of accuracy and space in the playback in a great system. Once I upgraded a phono stage and marveled at how I could hear the pick strike the stings on a guitar, it felt like I was holding a Martin and playing it myself. Trying to match the Rolling Stones at a football arena is a fools errand and will garner a visit from the police (at least in my neighborhood).
     
  24. Dennis0675

    Dennis0675 Hyperactive!

    Location:
    Ohio
    Oh I don't know if I completely agree with this. Like I said, I go to a lot of concerts and I have been to several where I found that I preferred the sound of my home system. I can get close to the same sense of adventure and engagement with home listening (on a good night).

    Live events can be very hit or miss. A talking crowd taking endless cell phone videos, or long lines for the bathroom and cause tremendous disengagement from the live performance.
     
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  25. Tim 2

    Tim 2 MORE MUSIC PLEASE Thread Starter

    Location:
    Alberta Canada
    Not sure if I understand, you go to 3 or 4 concerts a month but you prefer your home audio system ?
    We rarely go to live performances anymore and when we do it's usually an intimate Jazz venue. Dinner, drinks, friends, music, what more does one desire. :cheers:
     
    Dennis0675 likes this.
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