Old Linn Sondek vs old Planar 3 vs TD125

I would like to know your impressions on these three belt-driven turntables.
old 1987 LINN SONDEK LP12 Ittok
old 1987 REGA PLANAR 3 RB300
very old THORENS TD125 mkII TP16
Has anyone made a comparison?
Is REGA so faster than SONDEK?
is SONDEK so better than THORENS?
If you own REGA or THORENS or both is an upgrade buy a SONDEK?
Or is SONDEK too valued?

(I refer to an old 1987 Linn Sondek with Valhalla and Ittok)
THANK YOU

 

Having auditioned the top 2 back in the day I would say the LP12 beats the Rega even though it's overrated. The cheaper Linn Axis was better than the Rega (I bought one). Not heard a 125 for years or extensively but owned the TD160S which I'm sure was close in sound. Based on that I would say the TD125 would run the Sondek close and likely a better buy at used prices if in full working condition.

 

your thinking seems very right!
What do you hear best in a Sondek compared to the Rega?

 

At different times, I have lived with all three. All three were kept serviced so be careful if you're judging tables that are not evenly matched and in the best condition.

Ultimately, the Rega and Thorens were good at being okay - they were fine but did nothing superbly. The Sondek was in another league. This is the turntable that took me to the next level. I have owned it for about 20 years now.
DD

 

I've heard all three, 80's LP12s and Planar 3s many, many times, much as I'm not a Linn fan a properly set up Lp12/Ittok should be way ahead of the Planar 3 and based on my limited experience of the 125 the Linn should be comfortably better than that as well especially if it only has the Thorens arm, give the 125 some TLC and a better arm and it should be a lot closer. I spent a lot of time in my local Hi Fi shop in 1987, I think it's the year I bought my Roksan Xerxes, I got to listen to numerous LP12s as well as other things as they'd always let me listen to the nice decks they'd just set up, anyway back then if you'd suggested the Planar 3 was in the same league as the LP12 they'd have laughed you out of the shop, as far as I recall the LP12 without an arm was nearly three times the cost as for the 125 that just wasn't mentioned back then, even used, just the 166 MKIV or V which was a decent deck, but also inferior to the LP12.

 

The Linn is a better table, if you get it set up properly. The Rega should require less set up.

 

I heard a Thorens 125 or 160 (forget) in the early 80s. Bought it in fact as I couldn't quite afford an LP12.
It was a nice TT, but it lacked 'something' compared to the Sondek. It didn't make me smile. Kept it a week or two, took it back and got the Linn.
Happy ever since

 

Depending on how deep you want to go (or how deep your pockets are) the Linn can be upgraded extensively, if not now then over time (or not at all). Something to consider. Id probably go for one, but thats because i've grown up with my dad owning an LP12 for as long as i can remember.

 

I like the idea of listening and owning a historic record player, in its old original "historical" shape. .... No updates to do! Find this, used and cheap (for Sondek something around 900 pounds / euros)

 

Technically the original non updated Linn would be 1972 spec and I doubt there are many of those around though you could save lots of money and just buy an Ariston RD 11, I'm no Linn expert, but I believe there were lots of changes to the LP12 in the mid-eighties, so even if you got an untouched deck it could be different to one originally sold the week after or week before, I'm not sure there is a specific 1987 Linn, though on a positive I'd say it's still in the classic Linn sound period that so many people remember before they modded it so much it no longer sounds like a Linn. I think it's nice to run a stock classic deck like that, if I could sort out the sagging plinth I'd quite like to have my Mk I Xerxes running and sounding as it did in the 1980s as that's a very different sound to my Xerxes 10 and I do miss it sometimes.

 

I meant a near-original
or perhaps it would be better to say: a classic '80 Linn with Valhalla

 

The trouble with vintage decks of all types is condition. Each have different trouble spots. The Rega is the most simple and most robust overall design. Little to go wrong with one if it has been properly handled. The Linn has a more complex motor control circuit and will require a rebuild, whether it seems to be working or not. That, and it's a suspended deck, which has its own issues unrelated to brand or quality or even condition. Even if the suspension was adjusted perfectly and operating perfectly (which it won't), there are placement limitations due to the suspension being susceptible to footfalls. A concrete floor and a heavy stand are ideal for one. The Rega can be placed on practically anything without trouble. Lastly, if present condition were not enough of a trouble spot for used gear, there is location. If you cannot see, touch, and hear the unit locally, and are relying on hearsay and shipping services, you may find a pile of parts at your door rather than an intact turntable. Dustcovers and tonearms routinely get hammered in shipping by the most well intending packagers. I've seen it.

So in summary, buy local, and get the deck most appropriate for your room and your budget. The Rega is easy as there is little to go wrong, and if it is good in the system you inspect it in, it'll be good in yours. The Linns can have hidden costs and frustrating set-up issues. Buy new, locally, and avoid all of that.
-Bill

 

I bought a LP12, Ittock and Trioka in 1987 and as others have said it certainly better than the Rega, don't know about the Thorens.

Not long after that Linn brought out the Tampoline and the Lingo, both of which made significant improvements but the 87 LP12 was the bedrock on which the additions added that bit more.

The LP 12 likes a very light table, mine weighed about 3 pounds and on a stable wooden floor you can jump and land right next to it without any problem, in fact that's one way to ensure it's set up right, I used to do the installations when I worked for a Linn dealer and it's essential that it's set up by an experienced person to get the best from it.

The Linn did that elusive PRAT, like no other deck at the time.

I had mine for 20 years, without any problems and I'd still have it apart from the urgent need for cash.

 

Thanks KT88 and Pastafarian for your very accurate answers.
I already own turntables, including TD125 and old Planar 3 (with upgrades)
But I am very curious about turntables.
I want to own and learn about the famous turntables.
The Linn Sondek is really interesting
Most people don't like this TT
I often read: "I had the Sondek but then I sold it"
This says a lot!
I have a standard table, not a specific audiophile table for turntables
I like to take a deck from the wardrope and listen to it for a week
Then I put it back and take another
I don't know if a Linn Sondek is happy with this (!!)
sometimes I see an old Sondek ('80) for sale for around 1,000 euros / 900 £ (in my city)
(with Valhalla and Ittok LV II)
This is my target max.

 

If you're intending moving it around it's far from ideal, as it's suspension may go off if you're not very careful, you certainly would need to remove the platter each time.

As long as the tables stable the LP12 will still perform very well, I think it was around 87 when the 1st dedicated tables made an appearance in the UK, before that the IKEA Latt table was the norm, as it's made from MDF, it certainly good enough

 

Or you could take another step up with either SOTA Sapphire or VPI HW-19 if you want to stay in that vintage.

 

A properly set up LP12 is magical. That being said, it has quirks. Besides setup issues, the LP12 didn't do 45RPM unless you buy a pulley adapter or upgrade to a motor/external speed controller (if I recall correctly). It becomes expensive to maintain and add upgrades however worthwhile they may be. Especially if you don't live in a city that has an Linn dealer. Add that to the fact that a lot of folks that I have talked to who got rid of their LP12 did it when they adopted CD. So I think you can only read into somebody who got rid of their LP i2, so much. It is a legendary piece of equipment for a reason. I would love to have one...if Nashville ever got a linn dealer.

 

I've owned two makes of turntable, Rega and Linn and from before 1987 and into the mid nineties, worked and managed shops all selling Rega / Linn (and other good turntables).

Yes, as a customer and a dealer I have heard the comparison, sometimes several times a day, several times a week. Before working in shops I had bought a Rega Planar 3 with the old R200 arm and upgraded to a Linn LP12.

By the time I was working in retail, Rega had introduced the RB300, so Rega RB300 compared to Linn LP12, with Basik Plus (and Ittok) was a dem that was done hundreds of times over the years. The Ittok was a big improvement over the Basik Plus, but not one person preferred the Rega Planar over the cheapest LP12 package.

I've probably only come across around a dozen Thorens 125s, but people happily part exchanged them when upgrading to LP12s, so yes, of the three turntables mentioned, I never encountered anyone who didn't think that the LP12 was the noticeably better turntable.

In LP12 and Ittok development terms, 1987 are reasonably late models! The LP12 would have the plinth with the large corner fillets, the glued (and flat!) subchassis, the later Valhalla and possibly the later bearing housing which was introduced in 1987 serial number 70,000 and the newer, laminated armboard, which again was introduced that year, SNo. 79,160. The Ittok would also have the important upgrades to the LVII spec, though the Ittok was later upgraded to the better LVIII and LVIII Mk2.

Apart from one rogue batch of grommets from the early 90's, LP12s were easy to set up (with the correct tools, and a little experience), and more importantly, transported with any degree of sympathy, didn't fall out of adjustment. The same couldn't always be said with the spot welded chassis, silver bolts and silver springs. The springs were improved again in 1988 when the grinding tolerance was improved and harder, better grommets introduced in 1981.

Linn have sold somewhere in the region of 100,000 LP12s, which in Technics numbers is small, but in specialist numbers is massive. Simply because they sold 100-1,000 times the amount of some other very good turntables, there is obviously going to be far more sold on.

I spent hundreds of hours enjoying music from a 1987 vintage LP12, and it was only when the Linn Lingo was introduced in 1990, that a significant improvement was made. With the Valhalla, the LP12 could be adjusted to the exact speed and had a speed stability that a 1987, still excellent Rega Planar 3 couldn't approach.

 

Still running my original Roksan Xerxes. Still very quiet and had the plinth adjusted after the initial sag [which wasn't bad].. Did have the power supply repaired at Christmas and everything hunky dorey. It has the alphason titanium Zenon arm with a ortofon black. MC's sound lovely on it. Still very quiet in the grove. A dear friend listened to it one evening while I had to go next door. He just bought himself a TT.. a Goldnote, and couldn't be happier. I felt guilty at first but tt's can put a spell on you!

 

The Linn for sale nearby has been sold right now.
I was the second caller, I was waiting ....
the first caller bought it today
This is the second time this has happened!
Now I'll have to wait one more time!
Randoms your story is fantastic!
What is the Rega better / different than the Sondek?
What is the Sondek better / different than the REGA?
The Linn Sondek was at S.N : 43847
with Ittok V II and Valhalla. I liked it ... but it's gone!

 

That would make it an early 80's Linn, had the seller upgraded it to '87 spec?

 

The sag on mine was bad and made it unusable, I still have it and one day may sort that plinth, mine started out with an Alphason Delta then I put a Artemiz on it.

 

Sorry you missed out.

43,847 is from 82-83 not 1987. Here is the link to pdf of the LP12 upgrade history. Comes in very handy!

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...Vaw07R16tIvZdvOjCoJhkDROf&cshid=1558637939117

 

Yes, as we've mentioned previously, the sag could be pretty bad: a real shame as the original Roksan was a very good turntable and the first I seriously considered as a valid alternative to the LP12.

 

I've seen a company that was offering a solution (top plate repair) but don't recall the name. Roksan offered a spacer but otherwise left customers hanging. I think you could keep the platter and transfer it to a 10 at a reduced price.

It's on Ebay! - ROKSAN XERXES TOP SAG RESTORATION SERVICE | eBay