One more "I need advice" thread (hifi setup, recordplayer)

Hello everyone,

Browsing several audioforums for months, I am aware that a typical "I need advice" thread might put some people off, in that case my apologies. For those who don't mind:

I have been wanting to get into recordcollecting, hell I already started and been on a buying spree for the last two months. I have been looking at hardware, getting familiar with what I need for playing records, going to several hifi stores and have a listen. But there's is just so much and because there are so many options and I'm not really a technical guy I've become stuck so I am here asking for some advice.

What do I want:
Play music (streaming/records, with a focus on records) in my living room at a decent level. I would like to hook up the hifi set to my TV/Playstation4 (which I use for Bluray/Netflix) as well. I think I would be alright with just the 2 speakers, I don't need the whole cinematic experience (maybe at a later tage I'll add a sub). The mean focus would be playing records I'm no audiophile but I love the music itself, and I would like it to sound better than the setup I have right now: I stream music through Apple Music on my Mac, which is connected to a Duet 2 soundcard (Apogee Duet - 2 IN x 4 OUT USB Audio Interface ) connected to a set of ADAM A3X speakers (ADAM Audio - A3X Active Studio Monitor (Nearfield) ). This sounds good to my ears. This set up is in my workroom though which is quite small.

Not unimportant: The LP's that I'll be listening to will be mostly jazz and indiebands. So more "real" instruments than electronic music.

Budget:
Around $2000-2500 (Willing to extend to 3k for something really special. But I am in no rush to spend money like crazy and I would like to get the most bang for my buck).

My options for now:

Speakers: I have read so many good reviews for the Klipsch rp 600m. (Klipsch Reference Premiere 600M, the Audiophiliac Speaker of the Year ). Been reading articles, watching youtube videos etc. No dealer in my vicinity to have a listen, but I can get a good deal online for a set for 450 euros (around $490), so I think I'll go for that one.

Recordplayer:
So far I've narrowed it down to 3 options:
- Rega Planar 3. Good reviews everywhere, I quite like the look. I can get one at a local store for 800 euros without a cartridge
- Pro-ject The Classic (The Classic – Pro-Ject Audio Systems ). I really like the look of this one. Normally it's more expensive than the RP3 but there is a dealer that's offering it for 800 euros. I did read that most people prefer the RP3 to this one. This table does come with a cartridge fitted, an Ortofon Silver. This seems to sit between a Red and Blue qualitywise, and I can imagine that I would want a better cartridge, so this included cartridge doesn't really matter.
- Linn LP12 Sondek (≥ Linn LP12 in technisch mooie conditie! - Platenspelers en Pick-ups - Marktplaats.nl ). I am told this really is something else. There is a dealer in my town that deals exclusively in Linn. They have this secondhand vintage deck for 2000 euros. Much more expensive than the other two, however it comes with a fine cartridge (dynavector 10x4, which I am told is a good cartridge so I won't need to replace it) so that closes the price gap. It has a project tonearm and 2 year warranty. This dealer seems to really have a love for hifi and the product he's selling so I kind of believed him when he told me that "this is a recordplayer you buy for life". However this product might be a bit overkill compared to the rest of my setup and maybe the leap in quality will only be noticeable on better speakers/amp?
Also about the cartridge: I was thinking something like the Ortofon Bronze, let's say price range $300-500, however one employee at a hifistore told me that with a speakerset around the 600 mark and an amplifier around the same price, you wouldn't really reap the benefits of such a quality cartridge, and that I would be better of with a Ortofon red/blue, and spending the cash I save on a cartridge on a better amp/speakers. What do you think?

The amp:
This really is difficult for me to tackle as a non technical guy, however:
- Atoll 30 (Integrated IN30 – Atoll Electronique ): Since I was kind of set on the Klipsch rp 600m, I searched for an amp that will compliment those speakers and found this guy on youtube (). Now I don't understand half of what he says (because too technical and because english isn't my first language) but he seems to know what he's saying. Also it's not too pricey. I read that the Klipsch can be a bit harsh in the treble department and this seems to counter it. Price is around 415 euros.
Next to playing records I would also like to stream music, to my knowledge this isn't possible on this device. If I went for the Atoll30, what would I need to hook up to this to make this set up a streamer as well? Also, wouldn't it just be possible to hook up my Iphone (which can stream/has all my mp3's) to the Atoll30 and be done with it?
- NAD C338 (C 338 - NAD Electronics ). When I went to the store to have a look at the Pro-ject TT, I was recommended this amp. It seems to do what I want it to do: amplify the TT and stream music. It's discounted right now for 550 euros.

I also read that getting a tube amp would make your sound even nicer, especially with vinyl. Would a tubeamp be an add-on to your existing amp? Or a whole new thing? Do you recommend such a thing?

Well that was it. Hoping you guys can help me out. Although I'm not very into the tech/spec side of things, I do take a long time searching this stuff out. It has been more than 3 months of searching the web, I already bought lots of records and it's time to listen to the damn things!

Very much appreciated,
Marty

 

If you're committed to vinyl, then I recommend you spend as much as you can afford on the turntable setup which would include a suitable cartridge and paired phono stage. A far as amplification and speakers, you need it, but you can chose to get a lower priced gear to allow for a better front end or buy used gear. Even at $3k, you're going to have to look at lower priced gear compared to your front if you're looking specifically turntables in the $1000 price range. You're still going to need cartridge and more than likely a phono stage. I would also just forget looking for a sale. Make the best deal you can, but buying speakers sight unseen because you got a deal is bad reason to spend the money. Buy speakers that sound good to you and get an amp that allow them to perform at their best. With used gear, you're also going to have a much easier time bargaining for a lower price that you would new gear.

As far as tube gear goes, do you really want run tube read when you are amplifying your PS4 or television with tubes? Maybe you do, I've made the decision to not do with my television. I just have a decent sound bar for the TV. But, I don't often watch TV, it's more that when I do, I'm there for extended periods.

 

Youre on the right track. My suggestion would be to just get started, perhaps not even using all of your budget and getting into it before deciding anything.
All your listed tables are more than solid but you should spread your budget more like this:
50% Speakers
20% Amps
30% Table and cart

This should get you the best sound for the money anyway, especially since you wont just listen to records. But if you care about a clean playback and record preservation spend a bit more on table and cart. I can recommend a Nagaoka MP-150 to start with, the 150 and 200 are lovely for Jazz music.
You havnt listed any Phono stage however, are you aware that you need a RIAA unit before the main amp to play vinyl?
Dont bother with tubes before getting more experienced.

Now, hindsight is 20 20 but I hope most of your records are new or well graded used.
Because I assume its too late at this point to return a defective copy.
Be ready for a less than perfect experience.

 

Don't get a Rega, get a Technics.

 

And dont listen to advice solely coming from fanboyism.

 

That sounds right to me. If you have 2500-3000 to spend, you shouldn't be settling for $500 speakers.

 

Especially since more joy will be had with better speakers when it comes to digital playback, a turntable wont.

 

Thanks everybody for the comments!

I feel like a bit of a dummy now since I went for the Klipsch rp 600m, they will be delivered tomorrow. "How wrong could all those reviews be?".

Indeed I didn't know I also needed a preamp..

I'm thinking now of getting the Project Classic and a Marantz 1200. Which doesn't go with the 50 speakers/20 amp/30 tt formula, but getting a $300 turntable seems too low end for me. I can always sell the Klipsch 600 if I don't like them, they do pretty well on second hand websites. What kind of speakers do you guys recommend around the $1200 mark (for a pair)?

 

Id rather have a 300$ table with a great 500$ cart than a 800$ table with a 200$ cart, the table price for performance drops hard after the 500$ range while it continues a lot longer for Carts.

 

A $300 turntable is too low with a $3000 overall budget, you are right. In fact, if you’re going the Pro-Ject Classic route, I would suggest putting a little more toward a Classic SB (I don’t know what your pricing looks like, but right now here it’s only about $100 more for the SB, I assume because the Classic EVO has been released and is the replacement in the line for the SB). That includes a cartridge. You’ll need a phono stage/preamp, but you don’t need to spend a ton on that ($300-500?). You can even skip it if you get an integrated amp with one built in, but the conventional wisdom is that a separate will usually perform better.

If you’re going to switch out the speakers for something more expensive, you should still have room for that if you prioritize speakers over amplifier.

IMO, 40 speakers/20 amp/40 speakers might be better at this budget level, though that shouldn’t be a firm rule, anyway. The turntable/cartridge piece is important!

 

Go listen to some speakers. Figure out what speakers you like and don't like, and what is going to work with your placement constraints. A YT review on speakers isn't going to tell you anything. I would plan to spend at least 1/3-1/2 of your budget on speakers. If you choose bookshelf speakers, you'll need stands for them.

Once you figure out what speakers you like, figure out how much amp power you'll need to power them at your typical listening volume. Then selected a suitable amp that has the features you need. I would probably forget about tube amps as the nicer ones will eat too much into your budget.

RE: the Linn, I'll let the Linn experts chime in here. Personally I would not buy a Linn as a first turntable, or even a BFL one unless you know exactly what you are getting into. They are finicky things and a suspended deck like that isn't going to work well in all environments. Also, spare parts and upgrades are very expensive for a Linn.

I don't care for Rega or Pro-Ject decks personally, but if I was forced to choose between the two I'd buy a Rega. One thing to keep in mind is that the RP3 does not include speed control or a machined metal subplatter. If you add those upgrades later, you are almost at the price of an RP6. Might as well get the RP6 to begin with if you can afford it and really want a Rega. Then keep in mind an RP6 with no cart costs about the same as a Technics 1200 GR.

 

Do you have an amp for those speakers? They are not powered speakers. A preamp, or at least what most people are talking about when they say preamp is a phono preamp. That's not going to power your speakers either.

Typical chain as follows:

TT>phono preamp>integrated amp/receiver>speakers

 

I am looking for an inexpensive but quality preamp/dac that supports at least 5.1 channels and supports a quality upmixing of stereo sources to surround channels when I want it. This is to send the analog audio to my Emotiva XPA-5 amp

 

Thanks everybody for the advice.

I think I have found everything I need in this article: HiFi Review: PS Audio Sprout 100. A Taste of the High End for Low Cash. | Steve Huff Photo

- Technics GR 1210 (1500)
- Ortofon Bronze (400)
- Klipsch 600 at 450, couldn't resist)
- PS Audio Sprout 100 (400)
- Sonos for basic streaming (350)

all in all $3,100

As I understand, I do not need a preamplifier in this set up? If I do, I came across the Schiit Mani. Recommended?

I think I'll swap the Technics for a Rega Planar 3, Project Classic or MusicHall MMF 5.3 to get the price down a little bit. The RP3 and Project Classic are both 800 and available at a dealer in my town so warranty and servicewise this seems like a good bet.

Open to recommendations and suggestions!

 

Is it the Sonos Connect? Be wary that they will stop working soon-ish since it is obsolete technology (according to Sonos that is). Look into a used Bluesound Node 2 instead imho, and that's coming from someone who has a Sonos Connect. Plus it isn't limited to 16/44.

 

Thanks, will look into that.

Right now I am doubting wether I'll go for the
- PS Audio Sprout 100 or
- Atoll 300
+
Streaming device such as Sonos/Bluesound Node2

OR

an all in one solution (amp + streaming) such as
- NAD C338 or Marantz n1200

I can imagine the first option is better soundquality wise but is it?

 

Now thats an even bigger leap. I have an SL1210GR nyself but itshard to recommend such an expense for a first timer.
What exactly is it youre looking for in your vinyl experience?
Do you want to fiddle and tinker or set and forget?

 

I'd like to set and forget... mostly. Like to find the best spot for my speaker etc not not too much technical hassle.

What I am looking for in the vinyl experience: I read everywhere that people who listen to their favorite albums on a new hifiset and vinyl for the first time are blown away. I'd like that. Been getting more and more into jazz and that's a genre that seems to really benefit from the extra detail you get from vinyl/better hifi. Been streaming music through ADAM a3x studio monitors for years now and I would really like a leap. Also, I just like having vinyl for esthetic reasons; the artwork. Bought a bunch of em and have them on my wall in racks, which I really like: wall full of my favorite albums.

You mean that the Technics is too advanced for a first turntable? Could you give me an example in what way?

 

I would forget the Sprout altogether. Get a real integrated amp instead. If I were buying a new integrated today I would take a hard look at Yamaha AS series and buy the most powerful model you can afford. Refurbs from the factory can be a good deal, just read the fine print on warranties and returns.

I would also forget Sonos. Too many unknowns around support and sucking up too much of your budget.

What kind of connections do you need for streaming and digital files? If all you need is USB/coax/optical then forget the complicated streamer boxes and just buy an inexpensive $100-200 DAC instead. Some of these also come with a BT connection that uses BT/AptX/LDAC. This sounds much better than regular crappy BT. For casual listening when checking out new albums, I will often use the wireless LDAC connection streaming Tidal from my LGV40. Fine for casual listening.

 

If you've never had a real stereo system, everything will sound better regardless of format. Many people make the jump from cheap earbuds to a real stereo and think the "blown away" thing comes from vinyl and it doesn't. It's from having a real stereo, regardless of the format that's being played.

 

Post a room diagram then. Pics if you want. Make a separate thread about speaker placement.

 

Not too advanced necessarily, but the Rega product line is more of that set and forget kind of mentality. The Technics at least gives the ability to tinker a lot more by itself, but you dont have to of course, its just that I feel you dont need to go more expensive on the table alone, the 800$ ones you listed will be just fine for you Im sure.

Remember that if you want good sound you not only need the gear but also the right pressing. Youre gonna do best in getting those quality reissues from Blue Note 80th series, Tone Poet, Music Matters, Analogue Productions and Classic Records. But you have to shell out the cash as well, they arnt all that cheap.

 

This.

 

Rega is certainly set and forget in terms of cartridge setup, but the low-mass design requires more care for isolation than the Technics does. Also, the under-platter speed change on a P3 is something OP needs to consider, as well as the widely reported speed inaccuracy without an external PSU (might as well buy a P6 at that point, which may be a perfectly fine option). I honestly think the Technics is easier to deal with.

 

If you want something like the Technics but want to bring the budget way down, a Pioneer PLX-1000 may actually be something to consider. I would probably take that over the Rega, Pro-Ject, and Music Hall options you listed, personally. IMO, those brands are lacking in important ways until they get to the $1500+ price ranges (although, if you like the Pro-Ject Classic design, the normally $1500 Classic SB may be clearance-priced right now, $1200 here in the US, which I think is a great deal if that’s the type of thing one wants).

EDIT: also, I am remiss in not suggesting a Technics SL-1200 mk7 as a cheaper alternative to a GR. It will cost more than the Pioneer, but is probably a good middle ground in terms of price and quality.