One simple question about Thiel 04 Speakers

Can anyone tell me what is the max wattage rating for my Thiel 04 speakers are? I bought them back in the early 80's for a Beomaster 1900 but have no clue as to how much they can take if i put them on a more powerful amp. I cannot find this info anywhere on the internet since Thiel closed down.
Thanks

 

Well, here's what I always say about that:

Power ratings for amps are only vaguely useful. They are too often fudged, and even when not are tested into resistive loads which do NOT represent moving diaphragm speakers well. Speaker power handling ratings (in my opinion as a loudspeaker design engineer) are basically useless due to too many variables and too many lies.

Meanwhile, "Head_Unit’s Rules Of Protection" are:
1) If when things start to sound distorted or odd you TURN IT DOWN, you are unlikely to ever break anything.
2) If you constantly "turn it up to 11" you will break something.
NOTE: the size and power ratings of the speakers and amp do not affect rules 1 and 2. (In any case, specs for amps are often not thorough and for speakers pretty meaningless).

Stereophile said Thiel Model 04 loudspeaker "Thiel recommends Conrad-Johnson's massive Premier One [monoblock] as the driving amplifier of choice..." That thing was conservatively 150 watts per channel. You could connect some huge amps to your Thiels, as long as you follow my "Rules"-in particular, don't bottom out the woofers by trying to make too much bass, they are only 6" after all.

 

^^^Good advice. Having more power is a good thing. If you have an amp clipping it can damage speakers. Of course, if you are blasting the speakers at over 100db you will blow the tweeters first.

 

Wow, thanks for the informative and constructive answer. I am happy I learned something I needed to know, and anything new about these speakers.

 

Thank you also. I learned something from you as well. I think I found a good site for good answers from good and smart people.

 

By the way, what would be your opinion on the Pioneer SA-9500II amp I purchased in the late 70's? I also got the TX-9500II tuner, and the SG-9500 Equalizer all in a nice rack tower system on wheels. I can remember that back then the salesman's most popular selling point was harmonic distortion. I dont need any audio components now so I would not know if they still use this as a selling point today. Just curious of your thoughts.
Thanks Tom

 

My opinion is that others are much more expert with vintage stuff! Yes, in those days harmonic distortion was a "thing" that was obsessed over, is large part because transistors designs had come in a with massive amounts of feedback you could get very low numbers. Later over time it's been realized that those super low numbers really don't matter, and more feedback is generally not good. That Pioneer if I had to guess is an upscale piece probably designed by their top audio freak engineers-I'm picturing Japanese guys sitting in a sound room swapping out a single capacitor and debating its sonic merits-instead of the junior engineers designing the cheapest stuff. Is that what you are using still?

 

That model Thiel as I recall uses an active equalizer unit that increased the bass. As a result the LF demands are greater on both the amp and the speaker.

 

Thiels are quality speakers, not blasting speakers. If anything, with Thiels, I'd be more worried about having ENOUGH power.

 

No, I passed it down to my son this past week. I was just curious as to smarter peoples better opinion than mine. He thinks it is bad ass because it looks that way. It is in a well fabricated high quality rack that looks stunning on top of each other with a Pioneer Cassette deck with flouroscopic meters. It was above standard back in its heyday. I seldom hear of Pioneer today. When I grew up and moved from a town that was Pioneer/Yamaha dominate to a larger city that was ruled by B&O, I fell for that design. The best was when Jacob Jenson designed the wedge components for B&O. That is when I bought Theils for my B&O Model 1900. Today, I am happy with that. Old and dont listen to music cranked up stoned stupid and passed out listening to Dark side of the Moon anymore. More like NPR and Morning edition. LOL
I hope I am starting my son off ok with good vintage equipment that he likes. I guess thats all that matters, if he likes it.

 

I think so, it is quite retro cool. I went to an open house at an industrial facility converted to art studio apartments, and vintage stuff was all over the place. And while each amplifier can have its own kind of shading of the sound, it is hard for me to conceive that something like that Pioneer would sound bad. Not sure why Pioneer isn't heard of so much-if I had to guess, maybe because they went into more indirect distribution channels and that whole business (and their aftermarket auto business) has reduced anyway. What speakers is your son running?

 

While not a definitive answer, the original Stereophile 04 review, noted that Thiel recommended cj Premier One tube amps. That's 200 wpc tube mono blocks!

cj Premier One Specifications:

• Power: 200 watts per channel into 4, 8, or 16ohms with no more than 1% THD and IM Distortion, both channels driven from 30 Hz to 15 kHz
• Frequency Response: 20Hz to 20kHz, +0, -.5dB
• Input Sensitivity: 1.0 volts to full power
• Hum & Noise: 100dB below full power
• Input Impedance: 100K ohms

 

My son has an old soul. He is so comfortable in decades past. Like a clone of me. He loves the vintage stuff that I have and cannot wait to get his first turn table to listen to vinyl. I embraced anything new, but not him. You will probably get me banned from this site if I tell you what speakers he is using for the Pioneer. We want to build our own speakers in diy cabinets over time. Right now we are using what little we have left. All I had to spare for him to get started was a pair of Advent Mini's. Then we took a pair of 1960's Olson Wall mount speakers that had 3 watt speakers for tv in them and replaced them with 250 watt max 8 " mid range speakers. He used his pioneer analog equalizer to get the best sound he could from them. Thats it. 2 advent mini's and two rigged up Olson's. Sounds great for how pitiful it really is. I am so embarrassed and ashamed, but what can you do? We will build it up right over time. It will work well, sound good and look good when we finish.

 

You could send me a lot of cash, and I will expiate your audio sins
Parts Express has some decent and ridiculously inexpensive speakers, but it IS satisfying to build your own. Designing your own, that's a huge undertaking, but to follow someone's kit and make cabinets (or get precut) is still cool. The Mini Advents were not bad little speakers. I was going to say to reuse the cabinets, but really those are pretty tiny, you'd have better results with bigger cabinets and keep those for some other purpose.

 

Its a long story as to our home and set up, but I wanted him to put the Thiels on the Pioneer and the Advents on an old 20 watt Akai amp which would be a better match but he does not want it that way. We want to eventually build a tower from scratch with all range individual speakers. I will send pics next time. I just found Parts express and are looking at what they have. Seems to be a good company.

 

You can look here
DIY Speakers and Subs - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Multi-Way - diyAudio
to REALLY get sucked in

 

I was going to send 3 pics, but cannot figure out how to do that in this reply.

 

The 04 doesn't use the bass equalizer. The Thiel that used that was the Model 03. The owners manual for the o4 doesn't mention a wattage requirement but states that it is a "medium efficiency" speaker.
I use my o4's in my bedroom system with a 15wpc EL84 amp and it sounds great.

 

We use our Thiels in the outdoor kitchen on a 20 wpc Akai amp. And it sounds great.

 

On my Pioneer I have switchable A and B speakers. A speakers are 8 ohms and B speakers are 4 ohms. Is it ok to play them both together or can mismatched speakers damage the amp in any way?

 

You are going to burn in Audio Hell
Ok not really. IIRC those in parallel would be like 2.6 ohms which I'm quite certain the Pioneer is not rated for. Moderate levels will be absolutely fine; crank it up and you may think your receiver has selected a new Pope...

 

Best reply ever! Will not play them all at the same time, or will be very careful if we do. Then we will change them to all 8 ohms in the future.

 

Cool. Even so, regardless of impedance, remember "Head_Unit’s Rules Of Protection":
1) If when things start to sound distorted or odd you TURN IT DOWN, you are unlikely to ever break anything.
2) If you constantly "turn it up to 11" you will break something.
NOTE: the size and power ratings of the speakers and amp do not affect rules 1 and 2. (In any case, specs for amps are often not thorough and for speakers pretty meaningless).