One year in, what a pleasure records have become....

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Chester0711, Jul 14, 2017.

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  1. Chester0711

    Chester0711 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Minneapolis,MN
    Warning, this is long, and maybe meant for people who are on the fence about getting into records and a turntable... a sales pitch if you will, but also a recap of my experience thus far.

    A year ago my wife bought me a turntable for my birthday. Her idea came from a chance stumbling on a record store while on a trip to Spain. If it was not for that little shop in the town of Girona that brought to my attention that records were still relevant, I am not sure I would have ever come across the Steve Hoffman Forums, Discogs, Analog Planet, Michel Fremer, Popsike, Bernie Grundman, Bob Ludwig, mastering (in general), Jazz, Deadwax, etc...... . I could have cared less for the subtle nuances of VTF, IGD, or the difference between a stylus and a cartridge or how they are aligned. I also would still probably hold on to the very narrow view that if media comes in the form of "older" technology it is probably inferior.

    After my wife saw the look on my eyes while flipping through old albums, she put two and two together...My husband loves music + he needs a hobby + he likes to collect things + this seems inexpensive (boy was she wrong) this might make a great gift. I think she thought I would have a dozen or so albums and play them as a cool conversation piece when we had guests over or something along those lines. What she got was a vinyl crazed animal.

    I know so little. In a year I feel like I passed the 100 level course and am working on the 200 level.....many years away from obtaining my degree or any sort of mastery.

    Here is a little of what I have gathered thus far after one year....

    *side note - I started with just the turntable and a really bad set of satellite speakers and tweaked and added stuff over time. As I had issues or became curious about why something sounded or did what it did, I would research and try new stuff.

    Original Setup Day 1:

    Turntable = AT-LP120 out of the box.
    Cart/Stylus = AT95e came with table
    Receiver/Phono Stage = Yamaha (cant remember model but no phono stage, utilized onboard lp120 phone amp)
    Speakers = Polk Satellite speakers (from a 5.1 surround sound set I used ages ago)

    After much experimentation and trial and error I am here....

    Current Equipment:

    Turntable = AT LP120
    Cart/Stylus = AT440Mlb
    Receiver/Phono Stage = Marantz 2220B
    Speakers = Infinity RS2000

    Turntable - I started with the AT- LP120, this was the catalyst to all of this. No matter what turntable I die with, this turntable will always hold a special spot in my heart. Durable, easy to operate and work with, and very flexible to changes and modifications. Best of all, inexpensive.

    What I learned:
    In my opinion there are two modifications/add-ons that you must do to get the best of this table.

    1) Rip out that Processor/amp. There are a number of posts and articles on this topic, but there is a processor that basically digitizes and limits the overall sound that is produced with this turntable. It is a flat out joke and a must do if you even want to come close to seeing what this table can do. It's like buying a car that has a governor on the engine that would limit top speed to 35 miles per hour. Pull the Governor off and it suddenly goes 100 MPH! Just this one mod opens this table up like a flower and must be done in my opinion...but to each his own. Just know you aren't getting the full effect with it on.

    2) Replace the AT95e Cart combo with something better. I had a At120eb and then after much consternation about cost and such bought an AT440MLb. It was the next "revelation" in my experience. I love the sound this thing produces. It is bright and some don't like that but it picks up everything! The lesson here? In my opinion, the cart/stylus combo makes a huge difference in sound quality and the cost is not always representative of the actual SQ. Also, to make matters more difficult in this arena, it is not just quality but different types of sound. Each cart/stylus combo can produce a sound that is displeasing to one and downright erotic to another!
    The takeaway: try a few and find what you like (my carts so far AT95E, At120, Shure M97Xe , Empire 140C (older vintage cart), AT440MLb ...but start from inexpensive and work up...I have damaged two stylus, one with a bad type of cleaning fluid that eventually did something to the metal finish on the stylus, and another when a poorly placed shelf fell on my turntable. If I had spent over $500 on one of these I would have cried.

    Other mods that I have made:

    -Replaced felt mat with cork
    -Vibration dampeners on feet of table
    -Removed the cover of the ATlp120 during playback (reduced rumble and actually made a sizeable difference to sound when turned up)
    -VTF scale -digital
    -Alignment protractor (from LP120 website)
    -AudioQuest Anti-Static fiber brush - the one with gold in handle

    Other "equipment" -
    -I cant say how many different things I have done to clean a record so far, but I can say this....
    • Most cleaners are junk, but there are good ones.
    • There are probably many home remedies that work great, but take effort. Saving money typically comes at the cost of time and effort, what do you have more of?
    • Nothing is proven to be the best!
    • My favorite combo so far is the Record Doctor (vacuum style cleaner) with Audio Intelligent #6 One step cleaner. 32 oz. bottle costs about $30 but lasts me about 6 months. I apply with a MoFi pad. The vacuum is a must if you have a record collection of any size and value. I am sure there are better ones, but this one is good enough for me.
    • One thing I don't use anymore are microfiber cloths, only because the little fibers make a nice micro paste with the grease that inevitably gets on a record and the stylus picks it up and you end up with a harry little booger on your stylus. You still should clean your stylus regularly, just don't want to have to do it after every side of a record.
    • I use an Onzow Zerodust or a Mr. Magic Eraser to clean my stylus, tons of literature out there about both. Both work great. After the Zerodust is used up I may not buy one again becase the magic eraser works fine. Again, we live and learn.
    Record Storage:

    Again many different items to chose from here but here are my favorites...

    • For shelves Target sells a 6-cube organizer under the Threshold brand, it's like the Ikea Kalax shelf. I have three of them @ $50 each. Added them as the collection grows. My kids have a giant Kalax shelf and that will be mine soon once the collection grows to that size.
    • I also use the poly sleeves as record covers. Helps to keep the album cover in decent shape and helps to keep dust out.
    • Here is where I go crazy and this is probably my own little OCD thing, but I store every record in MoFi record sleeves. The ones with the rice paper insert? Yes, I know overboard. You can get cheaper ones, but I cant seem to bring myself to do it.

    Buying records:

    First off, records sound great when done right. In my opinion, The all analog sound cant be duplicated and is alive and rich. Instruments breathe in analog. There are times when Miles Davis seems to be playing his horn right next to me. It sounds like it is actually in the room and I don't even have the best equipment! Can't replicate this with Spotify! Streaming doesn't cut it....but just an opinion.

    - I buy originals whenever I can. 95% of the time if an album came out before 1988 I will seek out the original. There is typically no substitute for an original first press. Do I buy the original every time? no. There are instances where self-control is needed. There are also instances where the first press is not the best sounding...these forums will provide that info for you with a simple search. At the very least you will get in the neighborhood of what is better than an another. Again, subjectivity is key in many instances.

    - 180 Grams does not translate into better sound. It feels cool in your hands though.

    - Many artists who were great, great artists made bad sounding albums, or finding the good sounding albums are far and few between.

    - Is new vinyl garbage, should I just get the CD or stream it? Again, subjectivity in play, but no , plenty of new albums sound great.


    Conclusion:

    -Records , like many other things, where art and it's medium used to communicate it are a focal point, are very subjective to that person consuming it and how and why they consume it. You will run into a million opinions. This little diatribe is just one more for the heap.
    I went from being someone who could not understand how there was a market for vinyl records in this day and age, to being someone who uses Spotify as a tool to figure out what records I want to buy...and of course listening to music in my car...Spotify is good for that.

    Don't be intimidated by all of the Vinyl stuff, buy a record player, get some records and start playing them...have a question? look on these forums. You will have them as things come up and you will learn. Don't be intimidated by the conceded know-it-all jerks who act like you are doing it all wrong, you might be, but they dont get to be douchey becuase they have more superior know-how. God knows I am doing it wrong all the time.

    In my opinion (again, subjectivity!) This provides a very involved way to listen. It requires patience, time, and yes some money...how much is up to you. The key here is finding a new thing to learn about, and a new way to listen to music... that, to me, is fun!

    Records are a great distraction from everyday life and provide a great sound ... almost a lost sound.
     
  2. Daily Nightly

    Daily Nightly Well-Known Member

    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    Have you rebuilt that 43 year-old Marantz (which, if not: it's having A LOT more of a negative effect on the resultant sound than changing cartridges all the time)?
     
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  3. Chester0711

    Chester0711 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Minneapolis,MN
    Sent it in to a tech nearby....Cleaned, new LED lights put in, some components replaced, etc.......whole laundry list of stuff to get it sounding "right" which I will never know what "right" is as I was born the year it came out, but sounds great to me and that is what matters. It worked when I got it, but not great as some lights were fading and some buttons would stick. Probably needs a new cleaning as I have had it almost a year I suppose.

    In regards to the carts that you are worrying about me changing all the time...The first one that came with it I knew I would end up upgrading pretty fast, as a friend recommended it, after about 2 weeks he gave me an AT120 with about 100 hours on it. I then cleaned it about a month later with a solution that put an awful white film on it and then it looked to rust (looked at cantilever under a 10x loop and actually saw something that looked like rust. Either way I have not used a fluid to clean a stylus since. My friend works for Shure and got me the Shure cart and I used that for about 2 months until I got the Empire. The empire was purchased at a local store (sold to me as a vintage stylus/cart combo..it was pretty cheap) and I liked it more than the Shure so I used that for about another 2 months. The AT440Mlb has been on there for the last 6 months....just purchased a new one as I dropped a shelf on the table and bent the cantilever. The Empire was kind of bland and the Shure kind of open. The 440 is my favorite, sticking with those for a while. Ordered a Denon but cancelled the order at the last second and went back to the 440.
     
  4. Christopher Lauher

    Christopher Lauher Forum Resident

    Location:
    Phx Az
    do you play your records every day, i have been collecting for two years now and absolutely love it, i really like playing them a lot but i have heard playing records everyday is not good, just would like to hear your take on it. thanks guys
     
  5. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
    Life's short. Smoke em if you got em.
     
  6. punkmusick

    punkmusick Amateur drummer

    Location:
    Brazil
    The one who said that gave any reason?
     
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  7. JRJ

    JRJ Forum Resident

    Why not play records every day?
    I have all the LZ, Genesis, Peter Gabriel 200g Classic records and they are played constantly.
    They are mint and worth some money but I listen to music and not a collector.
    Who knows these days what could happen tomorrow.
    So just enjoy playing your Lp's.
    Cheers;
    John
     
  8. Christopher Lauher

    Christopher Lauher Forum Resident

    Location:
    Phx Az
    Thanks John cheers too you
     
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  9. Quidjay

    Quidjay Well-Known Member

    Location:
    San Francisco
    Well I mean the mechanics of playing a record is quite literally scraping a hard pointy gem against plastic, so there will be some wear, but if you have good equipment that you have set up correctly, you'll get many years of play out of your records with little to no noticeable degradation.
     
  10. Christopher Lauher

    Christopher Lauher Forum Resident

    Location:
    Phx Az
    Thanks for getting back to me, yes they said it wears out the cartridge
     
  11. SpeedMorris

    SpeedMorris Forum Resident

    Location:
    Iowa
    You can't possibly enjoy records or get more than Bluetooth speaker sound with anything less than a $2K table!!!!!!! (Congrats, Chester.;))
     
  12. allied333

    allied333 Audiophile

    Location:
    nowhere
    I love vinyl. Like your yourself, bought AT 120e, Grado Green, and ML-110. Not good enough. Bought a AT VM540ML (like your AT-440) and I was pleased. Use tube amplification and then bought Revel M22 speakers. I'm good.
     
  13. punkmusick

    punkmusick Amateur drummer

    Location:
    Brazil
    A good cartridge will last more than 1,000 hours. If you listen to one LP of about 40 minutes every day it means your cartridge will last at least 4 years if my math is good.
     
  14. Quidjay

    Quidjay Well-Known Member

    Location:
    San Francisco
    Ah, that's not the cartridge itself that'll get worn out, it's the stylus. And again, if you care for your system and you have it all set up properly, the stylus will hold up for at least 1000 hours, assuming it's a standard moving magnet cartridge. And if it is, you're in luck, because that's cheaper and very easy to replace. No tools required except some functional fingers!
     
  15. guidedbyvoices

    guidedbyvoices Old Dan's Records

    Location:
    Alpine, TX
    Great thread OP! I was like you, started out about two years ago with an ATLP120 and computer speakers. Each piece added and upgraded was a learning experience, each tweak to the set up. I feel I have a better understanding naturally of what different pieces of the puzzle do. I've now got an ATLP120 with an AT440mlb cart, but looking to purchase a VM740ml next, a schiit mani for a preamp but just moved to a Lounge Mk3, and audio engine A5s. I'd love to get a better table and speakers, but I'm stuck in a small room til my kid moves to college in 5 years, so I'm working with this all for now. I'll be interested to see where you go next with your system
     
  16. KT88

    KT88 Senior Member

    That's funny! Sort of like when you are found to have bought a new car and the jealous neighbor remarks that you shouldn't drive it daily or you'll wear out the tires.

    That's what it's for; it's a wear item. The funnier bit was that it came from someone who doesn't know what they are talking about, rather who read it somewhere online and then misquoted it. Maybe what he read was already misquoted; that happens all the time too. Rumor runs rampant. Anyway, what was likely the original bit of advice was the concern that playing a particular Lp every day might wear it out. Sure, that could happen if it didn't get good treatment. Records can wear also, but if you take a few steps to prevent that, they will outlast you.

    Buy a nice turntable, not a Chinese made unit, a solid and well designed and mfd unit. These cost $500 -$1000 for starters when bought new. They will last decades and treat your records with kid gloves. They will also sound way better the first day, the last day, and every day in-between that you own them. The cartridge matters a lot too, so get a nice one if it isn't on the table from the start. Then, keep the records clean. Buy only records in good shape and get them clean before playing them. That will extend record and stylus life considerably, as well as improve sound quality considerably. Finally, handle the records properly by touching only the edges, and store the records vertically, in their sleeves, in a shelves that keeps them upright and free from bending.
    -Bill
     
  17. clercqie

    clercqie Forum Resident

    Location:
    Belgium
    I had the ATLP120 for 5 years without ever having problems. All my records that I got since day 1 still play perfectly without extra degradation.

    Sure, the sound will be better with more expensive turntables (as you would hope), but this Chinese Audio Technica is a terrific starter turntable imo.
     
  18. audiomixer

    audiomixer As Bald As The Beatles

    I grew up in the 50's/60's and played records every hour of every day!
    And I still have all of those records...
     
  19. bluemooze

    bluemooze Senior Member

    Location:
    Frenchtown NJ USA
    I don't know how to respond to this. :confused:
     
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  20. bluemooze

    bluemooze Senior Member

    Location:
    Frenchtown NJ USA
    OK, now I understand.

    They are giving you bad advice. Play your records as often as you please. Eventually you will need a new cartridge or a new stylus, but that's just a fact of life. Car owners drive every day even though doing so wears out the car. :)
     
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  21. dkmonroe

    dkmonroe A completely self-taught idiot

    Location:
    Atlanta
    The issue of record wear is somewhat overrated IMO. Record wear is really more of an issue with used LP's that were played on poor equipment than it is an existential problem afflicting all LP's. I have many old LP's from my teen years; some still play and sound great, some have fared less well the passage of time and I have had to replace them. ALL of them were played on poor or indifferently maintained equipment because when I was a teen, I knew little and cared less, and yet still a surprising number of these old LP's still sound great. So my conclusion is: LP's that are cared for and played on good, well maintained equipment should last indefinitely. Will your 50-year old LP's sound great? Yeah, if they're still in good shape, they'll probably sound better than anything you can buy for new today. But certainly no one should worry about wear to new albums they buy today, provided that they have a good TT that's set up properly and they replace the stylus as recommended.
     
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  22. luckybaer

    luckybaer Thinks The Devil actually beat Johnny

    Location:
    Missouri
    I try my best to treat my LPs well, so I'll likely be dead before the vinyl degrades to a point noticeable to the human ear. If my stylus wears out, I'll buy another to replace the worn item. For what it is worth, I rip all my vinyl to FLAC files, so in the event of an absolute disaster (unable to replace a particular LP), at least I've got a digital copy.
     
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