Opinions on Floorstanding Speakers - Budget $4K

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by TheVinylAddict, May 6, 2018.

  1. TheVinylAddict

    TheVinylAddict Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Any Focal Electra owners, like the 1028Be?

    They are 4 ohm and look power hungry on paper... but interesting build.
     
  2. kdejonge

    kdejonge Well-Known Member

    Location:
    the netherlands
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  3. I listened to Focals and loved them a lot but they were the ones that retail for around 11k pair.

    I visited my dealer recently and they stopped selling Focals. Apparently some sort of dispute. Those snooty French :tiphat:
     
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  4. head_unit

    head_unit Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles CA USA
    As a loudspeaker designer, I say "nonsense" from a standpoint of the physics of sound radiation. It depends on much more than just bookshelf versus floorstander. I firmly believe there is some kind of psychological thing going on: "Oh it's smaller, like the higher frequency wavelengths, so it must be better for that" and/or "They're more "specialized" for mid and treble so must be better for that" which again is just not supported by physics.

    And I'd agree with both of these statements. In more budget lines, the step-up price from a bookshelf to a tower is quite large, and you can find cheap stands from $50 on Amazon. Once you're hitting oh I dunno like $1500+ which I've been auditioning with friends, I don't feel any lack of soundstage or imaging. I do feel a lack of fullness and, well, BASS BASS BOOM BASS (OK, not the BOOM part :p) in the bookshelf models-even the Dynaudio Contour 20 (and my friend would add the Special 40).
     
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  5. Obligatory break in the action shot of 4K ish speakers in their natural habitat.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. head_unit

    head_unit Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles CA USA
    Funny you should ask! My friend just bought 936s and my other buddy made the same exact observation. IIRC the front panel is 10" give or take a smidge. They have a nice aspect ratio, such that for as tall as they are and given the volume they enclose they are not super imposing.

    I posted elsewhere Monitor Audio Silver 300 first impressions.. a lot more detail; to summarize both at the damped Upscale Audio and in my friend's quit elive living room, the 936s simply sound great with anything we played, from classical to Diana Krall and Steely Dan to Motorhead's No Sleep 'Til Hammersmith. Said friend is selling his subwoofer as he feels no need for one anymore. Originally I was not super keen on his gloss black color, but when I actually saw it, and with black grilles on, they look really great to boot.

    Recent vintage used speakers can definitely be a great value, since modern speakers don't really wear out. I can't say something used might be better than the 936s...but they lacked for nothing really, except recreating Iron Maiden's World Slavery Tour at 126 dB in my living room, which would basically require PA speakers. On that note, a bit of caution that while I've never heard your Klipsch towers (I'm really curious to!) I suspect they are more sensitive than most other speakers and likely somewhat forward. Other "Accurate" speakers like the Focals or KEF or B&W may sound less "exciting" right off the bat.
     
  7. Helom

    Helom Forum Resident

    Location:
    U.S.
    IME, floorstanders that have it all: bass, imaging, lack of cabinet ringing, beautiful midrange, coherence, are typically closer to $4K with a few exceptions here and there. Based on many of your posts and threads, it seems you're one who values bass volume above all other speaker qualities. There's nothing wrong with that, but some listeners (myself included) would rather have speakers that nail the midrange at the sacrifice of bass output. I find a lot floorstanders in the $1500 - $2K range produce plenty of bass, but it's often boomy and low quality overall. I'd rather have standmounters and subs in that budget range.

    Anyway, the OP won't have to compromise since he's willing to shop used with a $4K budget.
     
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  8. head_unit

    head_unit Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles CA USA
    Ah, with subs it's a different story, though I read folks complaining about integration to the point they don't want a sub at all. Not sure how big an actual problem that is; it depends of course on the room and placement. Funny that after many years in automotive, I've just recently realized that aftermarket car audio was actually far ahead of home audio in tuning subs/front/rears as far as the crossover goes, and that home equipment generally has little or no real flexibility in that regard. Audio sure is a funny business sometimes.
     
  9. Helom

    Helom Forum Resident

    Location:
    U.S.
    I think there's just as much tech available for the home audio market, it's just not proliferated as it is in mobile audio where subs are more common.

    Many subs now have onboard DSP that automatically adjust to the room based on microphone input. There's also versatile DSP preamps like the DSPeaker Anti-Mode 2.0 that work well for sub integration:

    DSPeaker-Anti-Mode 2.0 Dual Core connection examples
     
  10. Matt Richardson

    Matt Richardson Forum Resident

    Location:
    60302
    White 702s that match the news reader’s hair color. -Love’em.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2018
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  11. Bob_in_OKC

    Bob_in_OKC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dallas, Texas
    I don't think it's fair to dismiss the whole issue as psychological. The other discussion or someone's interpretation of it may have just mutated a little from the idea of wide baffle vs. narrow baffle.
     
  12. mdelrossi

    mdelrossi Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brooklyn nyc
    If you can wait, and don’t mind used, Focal
    I've got their little brother the 1008be2, powered by a primaluna dialog premium integrated. the sound is great in my 12X16' room they could definitely work in a room your size. Though the 1028be2's would definitely give you more low end ( not a problem in my room). Since Focal just came out with the Kantana line you might be able to find the 1028's on sale or demo.

    Good luck.
    mdr
     
  13. SubtiltyCypress

    SubtiltyCypress Active Member

    Location:
    Levittown PA
    Wow, you're right. That's a shame, they answered my emails and I talked to them in March. I' m really surprised, but for lowering their prices that much, it makes sense.

    This is their email if you want to try: customercare@hyperionsound.com
     
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  14. 808_state

    808_state Fearless Yamahanian LP/CD

    Although they are more than double TVA's price cap I'd like a pair of Kanta 2's. Dig the look and they have Beryllium tweeters.
     
  15. head_unit

    head_unit Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles CA USA
    A friend of mine would be quite interested in that right now, and the price is not too bad either! I don't see technical information about what it DOES-did I miss that? Because it could be just another automatic frequency-based parametric EQ, or it could be a time-based unit which is a much better approach since that is how we hear.
     
  16. Helom

    Helom Forum Resident

    Location:
    U.S.
    It is primarily an outboard DSP that calibrates via microphone input. It can function as a DAC, preamp and sub control. I believe it also has a ladder resistance volume control. They usually go for $500 used. It will likely be my next upgrade for my digital chain.
     
  17. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    i made the observation at AXPONA this year that people in the market for speakers need to make an effort to determine which sound camp they are in. by that i mean natural or hyper natural. hyper natural speakers have an unnatural treble that create extra air and tizz in the high frequencies. pretty much every note or vocal has this subtle or not so subtle tinge or edge. some people love this sound.
    natural speakers sound detailed but not hyper detailed. the treble is natural little to no trace of tinge, tizz or edge. no sibilance either. my speakers for example can present a female vocal with nothing but a natural quality, no hiss, sibilance or artificial air. this is my preference.
    hyper natural speakers are quite popular and plentiful. names include dali, monitor audio, b&w, focal, kef and dynaudio.
    a brand i heard at AXPONA this year was quite hyper natural sounding- YG acoustics. in all sincerity i would much rather listen to a $ 2000 pair of harbeth p3esr speakers than a $14000 pair of yg acoustics. pick a camp. if you dont know, spend lots and lots of time listening.
     
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  18. TheVinylAddict

    TheVinylAddict Forum Resident Thread Starter

    NS-2000 - Wikipedia

    I wonder how a well kept / restored NS-2000 plays in this field?

    I always marvel how a 30" speaker like that can weigh in at 100lbs each.
     
  19. SquishySounds

    SquishySounds Yo mama so fat Thanos had to snap twice.

    Location:
    New York
    If you like Klipsch you could pick up the revamped for 2018 RF-7iii towers
    [​IMG]
     
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  20. 808_state

    808_state Fearless Yamahanian LP/CD

    Absolutely on my master shopping list. Seems like a lot of guys run them with tubes so they might be right up your next alley. If you can live with a re-veneer job (I can't) you might check these out:

    Amazing! Yamaha NS-2000

    Here's the same set but at a cheaper price and still free shipping:

    Inimitable! YAMAHA NS-2000 Pair Speakers | gtbouch
     
  21. TheVinylAddict

    TheVinylAddict Forum Resident Thread Starter

    This coming from probably the only other guy on the thread with a Yamaha GT-2000! :cool:

    Wait - a GT-2000 paired with an NS-2000. I didn't even think of that till just now...

    You never think twice since the drivers in the vaunted 2000's, if original, are 35 years old now?
     
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  22. 808_state

    808_state Fearless Yamahanian LP/CD

    Not a bead of sweat. I have NS-690 mk 1's and NS-1000x's that function perfectly. Yamaha's days of yore have a mighty shelf life. Plus if the cones aren't damaged then voice coils and all sorts of things can be rebuilt in the hands of a proper speaker junkie. A double 2000 pairing would be a crusher of a combo. The only thing better would be a GT-2000x with NSX-10000's (definitely not in the $4k price bracket).
     
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  23. TheVinylAddict

    TheVinylAddict Forum Resident Thread Starter

    The only wrench in the plans is availability, right? I mean, those two links you posted, if those were the right ones, you'd already own them!!

    I had a chance at a nice pair from you-know-who about 6 weeks ago, and turned them down. At that time I thought I didn't want them. But given that chance again, I'm not sure. These would be fun to audition, and if I had to sell them, they would sell quickly. It's always OK to buy stuff that is high demand and has strong resale, especially when you don't have to pay the "new" premium (which on speakers, is very high).

    I wonder how the NS-1000 stacks up in a side by side listening to the NS-2000, you've probably never had a chance to compare them directly? What is interesting, they have the same size tweeter and midrange, with the NS-2000 having only a 3 cm (1 1/4 in) bigger woofer. Yet, the wattage requirements posted are VERY different - the NS-2000 is supposedly 250W / 125 W (peak / rated), and the NS-1000 goes to 100W / 50W. This is according to vintage knob and a couple of other sites. Misprint?
     
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  24. 808_state

    808_state Fearless Yamahanian LP/CD

    Indeed if they were all original cosmetics I probably would...but...and there's always a but, he's never going to get full US domestic value (I'd say closer to $4000 to $5000 because they are considered rare here) for them because they really don't have the "look". As for myself, with a little patience I can probably get a pair from "you know who" or through other means in Japan. If you can bear it, one option is 2-3 month slow boat shipping. I know it's risky but it's far cheaper than air because apparently everyone is now terrified of transporting magnets on their plane and this has driven the cost of international speaker shipping up significantly. I don't really have the space for 2000's the moment but they're not that rare in Japan so they can be had if you really want them. If I had $8k to burn I'd hold out for the NSX-10000's but would probably end up buying a GT-2000x first (less than half the wow and flutter of a standard GT).

    Based on everything written by owners of both models, the 2000's are simply in a class of their own. The drivers may appear similar between some models but are totally different part numbers and builds.
     
  25. TheVinylAddict

    TheVinylAddict Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Bottom line. There are lots of 1000's and 1000m's available. Take your pick. I thought about a pair for my woodshop.

    2000's? Get in line. Supply is way less than demand. To get first dibs at a top notch new pair, you have to know somebody. There is always the one-off nice pair that rolls through Ebay, but not too often.

    That slow boat shipping option though... hmmm.... I am not sure I would ever take that option. :)

    EDIT: as far as the 2000x or the 10000x, I will leave that price range to you :) it would be my limit on the 2000's alone, and the 2000L TT is enough for me!
     
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