Oppo 103D or 105D for SACD Playback?

I can't seem to figure out which one to get for SACD playback.
It will be hooked up to my Anthem MRX-510 which does not do DSD decoding.
They both have Analog Outs but the 105 has the SABRE DAC section on it's analog out.
The difference is about $1K but if the 105 will be that much better for SACD playback I might pony up the difference. Other than that I don't care about the DAC section in the 105 even if it's really good because I already have a Benchmark DAC2 which I really like.

If anyone has any opinions or experience with these units I'd appreciate them.

Thanks,

-- sanjay

 

The 105D sounds better then the 103D. I've listened to both for extended home auditions, and the 105D is a better sounding player.

 

Are you interested in SACD surround and stereo playback? Do you use ARC when listening to music? I have the 103 and it sounds great for SACD stereo playback using the analog outputs to a Parasound 2100 preamp. You could always order the 103D and try it in your system. If the 103D doesn't work out you could return it and order the 105D.

Bill

 

The 105, like my 95, has 7.1 analog outputs. If your avr or preamp has 5.1 or 7.1 analog inputs, you will likely get better SQ using this method. The difference between hdmi and straight analog thru my Oppo 95 is amazing. Worth the additional $$. Course, if you don't have the inputs, get the 103.

 

Mike,

The Anthem 510 doesn't have a 5/7.1 analog input. That's why I asked the OP if he also listens to surround SACDs. Because if he does he would have to use HDMI which would negate the Sabre DACs and analog section of the 105D. I had the 95 in my system for awhile and spent quite a few hours comparing it to the 103. I certainly don't have a "high end" system but the 103 compared very well against the 95. It did so well I sold the 95 as the lack of a fan and better streaming capabilities of the 103 made it the better choice for me.

Bill

 

Dang, that's right. How did I forget that my Anthem 510 doesn't have 5/7.1 inputs.
It's been packed up for the last few months and I only used it for a couple of weeks when I got it and I forgot and assumed that it had 5/7.1 inputs.
In fact I was interested in it for both stereo and surround SACDs. I don't think the Oppo does DoP output so I couldn't use the digital out to my Benchmark for stereo DSD playback like that either.
Oh well, guess I am stuck with HDMI for it which will down-convert to pcm I think as the Anthem doesn't decode DSD.
So no advantage for me for getting the 105 it seems after all.

No biggie.

Thanks guys.

 

You could use the FR and FL analog outputs of the 103D to a stereo analog input of the 510 and have DSD direct for stereo SACDs .

Bill

 

Would switching from the HDMI cable from my Oppo BDP-103 to the analog out make much of a SQ difference? I have a Denon AVR-3808CI that has analog in. Would this be the preferred way to go? Or is does this method only benefit the Oppo BDP-105?

 

It is my first post so please take it easy one me. I am also looking at the Oppo 105. I wondered if the fact my old McCormick amp/preamp only has RCA style cables (SACD two channel) for the connection will negate the positive benefits of the player. My CD unit is a simple Rega Apollo R.

 

You could try using the analog input/outputs and do a comparison to HDMI. I feel the DACs and the analog section of the 103 are very good. Worth a try and doesn't cost anything especially if you have a couple of extra RCA cables .

The 105 would be a excellent player to go with the McCormick IMO .

Bill

 

Thank you Bill

 

Thank you for the reply Bill Mac. I will give it a go and see if I notice an improvement. The upgrade to the Oppo BDP -103 was a big step up in sound quality in itself. I would expect the analog connection to be small, but I guess there is no better way to answer my own question than do it and see. I was wondering if any other members have done this and would share their results here. I will share mine, but it may have to wait until after the turkey.

 

using RCA connectors is actually the best way to connect the BDP105, especially using the dedicated stereo out. When you connect analog, the player is doing all the decoding which the 105 does very well.

 

Thanks Rob

 

I got in a few SACDs this week (Clapton "Time Pieces" AF, Weezer blue album Mofi, and Love "Forever Changes" Mofi) and gave them a spin on my 105D. I first played the Clapton and thought that it sounded ok, but a little harsh at times. Then I played the Weezer and it too seemed a little harsh. I checked my settings and somehow the SACD playback was set to PCM instead of DSD, halfway through the Weezer album I switched it to DSD and Wow! The difference was night and day. I've never thought PCM through CD, DVD-A, or through my Squeezebox Touch using the optical input ever sounded bad on the 105D, so maybe it just sounds bad when you convert DSD to PCM.

 

Well, technically $3800 with the mods.

 

Has anyone had an opportunity to compare SACD (or DSD stream) playback between the 103 and the 105?

I will be sending all PCM through a DAC via spdif, so the 103 seems to fill the bill unless the difference in DSD sound is perceivable/substantial.

 

I think you may want to do some additional research. You are not going to get a hires stream via spdif from any SACD player. The thing to consider with SACD players is the DAC that is actually built into the player, because the SACD format locks down the digital output - except in the case (sometimes) of the HDMI audio stream. In which case you want to be looking for players that stream DSD, and DACs that can receive it.

Anyway, in this case, the premium between the 103 and 105 is accounted for in the DAC and analog output stages. In my opinion as an owner of a 105 and a couple of ~3k DACs, unless you are spending big money on an external DSD capable DAC, buy the 105 and spend the savings on media. It's a really good player.

I think it is absolutely amazing what a couple of grand can buy in digital playback these days. Kind of mind boggling actually. I can't even imagine what some of our forum members can get to with their 100k digital suites. I can only dream of hearing a rig like that.

But you can get 80% of the way there for not much coin.

 

I hear ya, and I think I poorly worded my question.

Since all the PCM duties (2 channel blu ray audio, HDCD, redbook, file streams, etc) will be sent via spdif to a 24/192 capable external DAC (Lampi 4, PCM only) for analogue conversion, the only analogue playback from the oppo I am interested in is the DSD, for the very reasons you mentioned above.

Even if/when I send the Lampi in to have the DSD module installed, it won't have an HDMI imput so still won't be able to accept the DSD stream from the oppo.

So for everything save DSD playback, I would be using the Oppo as a glorified universal disk transport (and possibly media renderer through the USB input?), which has me leaning 103. But for sacd and other DSD playback, I would be using oppo's internal DAC and analogue RCA outputs.

I've read generally that the 105's sabre DAC & output stage produce fantastically detailed sound, while the 103 lacks the clarity and precision but may present a warmer (duller?), less clinical sound. The consensus winner for PCM playback on the oppo for most listeners seems to be the 105.

However, my understanding is that DSD is a completely different animal. The DSD capable lampizator DACs, for instance, apparently don't even use a DAC chip at all. So I'm wondering if anyone has heard specifically the DSD playback in the 103 and the 105, and can weigh in on the difference.

You could put everything I know about DSD on the head of a needle and still have room to inscribe the lord's prayer, but the "analogue sound" I've been reading about has me itching to dive in.

 

Oh, I assume I'll need and be using an hdmi de-embedder http://everythingaudionetwork.blogspot.com/2013/04/audiophile-review-hdmi-de-embedder.html?m=1 for getting the hi-rez 2 channel PCM digital output from the oppo's hdmi to the Lampi's spdif input.

 

Oh, pscreed, you may get a kick out of the fact that my intention initially was to purchase a 105 for all the reasons you mention and more. In researching all the options before pulling the trigger I kept coming upon glowing reviews and testimonials for Lampizator DACs, which was all well and good except a) as a man of limited means they are out of my price range and b) without a universal transport I am no closer to being able to listen to resolutions higher than that of my current cd player.

While monitoring eBay for 105's I happened upon someone selling the 2014 Lampi 4 Gen 4 for a 1/4 of the retail price. Long story short i got exitedly caught up in a bidding war. Let's just say I spent more than the cost of a new 105, and less than the cost of the new Lampi.

I now waver between buyer's remorse for still not having a universal player, and profound bliss for how gloriously the Lampi has transformed redbook listening for me. The proverbial double-edged sword.

So you can see how after spending about twice the cost of the 105 on a DAC (PCM only, at that), I am hoping to keep the cost of the oppo (or other universal player/transport) as low as possible while still receiving quality DSD > analogue playback. If that's not possible, my other option is to bide time until I regenerate the funds.

 

I think the Modwright mods are worth the coin, but agree the 105 base player is a great bargain.