Oppo and HDMI de-embedder

Hi all
I'm using an oppo 103 with a HDMI de-embedder into an external DAC via toslink. Then the DAC into my 2ch integrated amp.

All settings in the Oppo menus are set
for SACD dsd and HDMI out for pcm
The HDMI cable from out of the HDMI 2 port.

My dilemma is I get silence.
Not even a signal from the redbook layer from the SACD .

I've heard some de-embedder work and some don't. They have to "digital handshake" to bypass Sony copyright.

Oppo tech guy was at a loss as to why I was getting silence.

The de-embedder is a generic brand.
What units do people recommend?

That actually work...

 

I use a Kanex Peo with no issue between my Oppo 105 and Benchmark DAC2 (connected at coax level to DAC)
I have Oppo HDMI 2 out set to Bitstream
I have SACD output set to PCM and get PCM 88 2
I also have HDMI out feom de embedder to Pre Pro
Tou may need to connect your de embedders HDMI out to a Display /AVR/ Pre Pro ro complete handshake
Also naybe ensure de embedder is in stereo mode with red light on I think.....press button

 

I'm using a no brand de-embedder (same as the Kanex Pro) that works with other systems (oppo source) but will not work with my Yamaha CD-S3000. I'm thinking the Yamaha is the problem in this chain rather than my blu ray player?

Sorry, not an answer for you but would love to hear successful implementation!

 

Sorry, no Oppo (yet), but using Ligawo 6518766 (e.g. Ligawo ® 6518766 HDMI Audio Extractor to SPDIF Toslink / Coaxial: Amazon.co.uk: Computers & Accessories , Amazon.de ~ 30€) for Pioneer BDP-170. As my stereo amp does not accept DSD directly and the Pioneer cannot repackage DSD as DoP (DSD over PCM), the SPDIF/Coax of the Pioneer does all sort of stereo and there is no real need for the deembedder. Not an idea for the OPPO, too?

 

I am presuming your Pioneer BDP-170 down samples Blu Ray Audio to 16 bit 48 kHz over optical/coaxial cables? A de-embedder should let you use the full resolution, upto 24 bit 192 kHZ over optical/coaxial.

Seeing as DVD Audio works fine over optical/coaxial I can only assume this is another reason why Blu ray Audio has failed!

 

Hi, the only BD-Audio i have is APP "Tales Of Mystery And Imagination". When playing the 24/96 stereo mix (from disc, not the download), my amp shows 96 kHz sample rate in the display (it never shows the bit width). So i do assume there is 24/96 via SPDIF! Same for hi res audio from DVD. Ok, more severe playback restrictions on discs may exist. Then i had to use the deembedder...

OT: The only reason for buying the BDP-170 was the ability to rip SACD. Oppo 103 would be a better choice of course, but in Europe they are still quite expensive (in used condition, ~4 years old, 400-500€; close to but still not the perfect UDP). The 170 was ~90€, from Feb 2017.

 

I have a Kanex Pro De-Embedder which I purchased as an experiment. When I tried it with my Oppo 103 and my PS-Audio Direct Stream DAC, it did not work at all, no matter how I configured things. But when I used this same combination with a couple of different DACs that I have kicking around, it functioned as expected using the exact same settings which had failed with the DS.

I asked Ted Smith about this issue a couple of years ago, and he subsequently purchased one of these units as an experiment to see what was going wrong. After trying it out, he informed me that the Kanex was somehow not "framing" the PCM data properly to fully conform to SP/DIF specifications, and that this was the reason why the DS would not decode the output from the Kanex Pro. He also said that some DACs have input receiver hardware which is more forgiving about accepting signals which do not fully meet SP/DIF specs, and that this was the reason why some other DACs which I tried had worked when fed with the same signals.

So I'm guessing that the reason that you are having issues is that your DAC (like mine) may be less tolerant of SP/DIF signals which don't fully conform to SP/DIF Specifications.

 

Hi there
I seem to only get 16 bit by 48 kHZ on both DVD Audio and and Blu ray Audio on my Pioneer BDP-170. What settings do have for your audio output? I tried with HDMI audio on and off, have the "upto" 192 kHz setting on and digital audio set to (stereo and PCM)?

 

Spdif will only pass 96khz.

but my settings in the Oppo were SACD "dsd"
HDMI "lpcm"
(The player will do the decoding internally)
And I use the hdmi2 port at the back of the 103.
The de-embedder is set for 2ch.

I wanted to know if any others had tried this with successful results.
If so I was going to purchase a more pricey de-embedder to see if that mattered?
But before I did I was looking for some wisdom here.

I wish these units were programmed to just "lie" during the "handshaking" and
skirt the copyright issue.

 

I have the Oppo 103 set up just like yours and use the following "HDMI Audio Extractor" for the same reason the OP does. This one worked from day one (out of HDMI 2) from day (August 2015) and is still going fine. But before I posted I tried a SACD and it did not work (silence). I will try some more tomorrow.

Amazon.com: ViewHD HDMI Audio Extractor | Optical Toslink + L/R Stereo Analog Converter Outputs | VHD-H2HSAs | Support Amazon Fire TV, etc: Electronics

 

Coax spdif does 24/192
Toslink aka Optical used to be limited to 24/96 but most can now handle 24/192

 

Well blow me! I decided to give it one last chance today and bought this (Digitech) from Jaycar

HDMI Audio Extractor | Jaycar Electronics

I now have 24 bit 192 kHz over optical!

I guess some de-embedders must be better than others?

 

So sorry, i just checked my settings via TV (same as yours) and have to say, i have mistaken the digital inputs for coming from 170's hdmi/deembedder and spdif/coax => so 48 kHz limit on spdif and BD-Audio (APP and Pink Floyd's The Endless River). Via HDMI/deembedder full range. My mistake...

With SACD (DSD=>PCM) both show 88.2 kHz

 

Greetings
Sorry for the late post but I've been away...
Anywho

My de-embedder does work and does pass hi-res to the DAC but like Linger63
stated I had to have a HDMI cable going to
a display to finish the handshaking.
I don't want to put one on the stereo
system 'cause I only want to use it for audio.

I have since purchased a Headless Ghost HDMI dummy plug
that I can plug into the second HDMI output on the de-embedder.This little plug will hopefully fake out the unit to think there is a display there.
The Headless Ghost plug will do EDID.

Hope this works....

 

Sounds like a plan.
Good luck..............what a pain HDMI can be at times hey!!!!!
At least OPPO gives us a shot though...

 

Any luck...

 

Oh sorry
I await the plug.
I bought one off eBay.

I will report back when I get it.

If it works it will be a nice cheap "workaround"

 

Sorry, didn't get to it. I am truly interested in this because since my post I added the Marantz Dac/headphone amp which is now fed from the optical signal coming out of the de-embedder and this Dac displays the frequency on its front panel, and I haven't gotten anything higher than 48 KHz, even when playing Blu-rays. I am going to run the signal from the digital coax out of the 103 into the same Dac (so I will have two parallel lines between the 103 and the Dac) and see if I get anything different between the two streams. My set up in the 103 for optical/coax out is 96 KHz, which in theory should not affect the audio rate out of the HDMI2. We will see. Please be patient with me.

 

Note - if you use a TV display to provide the "handshake", you will only get the resolution that your TV supports - and that may be only 48 kHz. Don't know if that helps.

For anyone with an Oppo 103 or a Pioneer 170, it would probably be easier to use the new ripping method - ripping an ISO image from the SACD to your PC. Both these machines can be used that way.

 

Thanks for your comment. That sounds like an avenue to investigate. The Oppo 103 has a mode called Split A/V where output HDMI1 is only video and output HDMI2 is only audio (supposedly this setup provides the best audio output at HDMI2). My audio de-embedder is on HDMI2, so HDMI2 is not connected to any TV, but I wonder if your "handshake" theory still applies in this scenario.

Man, I have to retire so that I can have enough time for this stuff.

Question, how do you do the ripping of the SACD?

 

Yeah FWIW the HDMI out
from my de embedder goes to my Pre/Pro
for MC anyway so my handshake is fine.
I'd assume that was the connection method
in mind by the makers.
May well be an issue in a stereo only system with no AVR or Pre/Pro..... no idea what the Display will do.

Re SACD ripping....do a search on here as there is a large Thread about it.

 

I think that's probably your problem - if HDMI1 is connected to a TV and HDMI2 isn't connected to anything except the de-embedder, then your player will get its handshake from the TV because it doesn't have any alternative. And the TV will probably only do 48 kHz.

If you have an Oppo 103 you are lucky because you have one of the very few machines that will allow ripping by the newer method, which doesn't require a de-embedder. If your PC is Windows, there's a set of instructions at the bottom of p3 of

this thread

which I followed with great success. It looks complicated but it's actually very easy.

 

If going by the frequency display of my Marantz Dac/headphone amp I get decidedly mixed results. From the HDMI2>deembedder>DAC link out of the 103 I always get 48K no matter what I play (except of course CD): SACD, DVD-A, Blue-Ray.

From the coax out of the 103 (settings: 96K coax output, SACD output PCM) I get the following when I play these in stereo:

Lotus SACD: silence
Yes Magnification or Fragile DVD-A: 48K (here the 103 Info display says they are both 96K)
Santana Montreaux BR: 48K

Comments: I dont understand how on the two Yes DVD-A if the OPPO says they are playing @96K, the coax output reads at 48K. Unless the DAC display is wrong,
The Santana BR is the best sounding (IMO) anything that I have. Well it turns out that the stereo track is 48K as per the Oppo Info display. I would have thought it was higher, yet I don't know the bit depth. I just know it sounds unbelievable (again IMO).

I will try other stuff later this weekend.

Also, with this Marantz DAC-headphone amp HD-DAC1, the Coax input sounds better than the optical input, which is something some users had commented on on the unit's thread. A slight but noticeable difference. I know digital is digital (0 and 1) but I am not the only one who apparently hears a difference.

 

That's easy - if you're using the S/PDIF output, you will never get high resolution. It's the same on all players and it's to do with copyright protection - you will never get more than 48 kHz out of the S/PDIF outputs whether coax or optical, and you will probably get nothing at all if the format is SACD. It's all just copyright protection and there's nothing you can do about it.

You can only get very high resolution from the HDMI output. And that is why you need an HDMI de-embedder - because no DAC has an HDMI input and nor does any PC.

 

Not true.