Oppo UDP-205 Announced

If you are buying bluray discs today you will probably want to buy 4k bluray's in the near future. You know how these things are. It will start to itch like crazy.

4k bluray discs being backwards compatible with now legacy 1080p tv's makes it hard not to start buying 4k discs instead of regular bd's. Change out tv in the future and get the 4k benefit.

Just my train of thoughs

 

Multichannel out over usb, please Oppo!

 

I emailed Oppo yesterday at 8:20am and received the reply below at 9:22pm. As always incredible customer service from Oppo on a Saturday no less !

Bill,

We are not yet showing the back panel of the UDP-205 as it is still a work in progress. Once we are closer to release, which is a month or two from now, we will update the website with product images of the final design of the player.

Best Regards,

Customer Service
OPPO Digital, Inc.

 

Thanks Bill for asking. Still work in progress? Never thought it would be, so close to release date.

 

Robert,

My pleasure! I think the response from Oppo was a courtesy and possibly a standard one as I'm sure many others have asked the same question. Hopefully more information on the 205 will be available within the month .

 

I have owned the Oppo 105-D for a while now, and yes, it absolutely recognizes an HDCD encoded disc, however there has been much discussion on this forum about how this particular player decodes HDCD. I was always under the assumption the decoding had to be done by a Pacific Microsonics PMD100 or PMD200 chip, the process designed by Keith O. Johnson who engineers the fantastic Reference Recordings material. Other people posting here have said Oppo decodes HDCD by some sort of firmware implementation, which is Greek to me? Some have mentioned a MediaTek OP8581 4K chip, and I'm not sure if that chip is on the existing 105-D or it is going to be used on the new UDP-205, hopefully someone can shed light on that, additionally, I don't see how the MedaTek OP8581 has anything to do with HDCD at all? It would just be great if someone on the forum knew exactly HOW HDCD is decoded on the original 105-Darby Edition Blu-ray player, and can explain if Oppo's method of decoding HDCD is a total compromise of the accepted way of decoding HDCD using Keith O. Johnson's UDP-205 HDCD chip, which is suppose to totally and completely maximize HDCD. I would think anything less than the Pacific Microsonic chip would be a compromise, but it would be nice to know more about this subject, hope some people on here can shed some light on this subject. I was so disappointed to hear that Oppo has decided to just abandon all HDCD decoding on their newest flagship UDP-205, why in the world would they do that??

 

Here is the quote from Oppo...


"HDCD Decoding is a function of the decoder, and MediaTek is not supporting HDCD Decoding in the current line of decoder platforms for UHD media. This being a hardware limitation (ie something that does not exist at all in the chipset) or a software limitation (ie. they just need to add the code into their SDK) is still being discussed with MediaTek, but at this time we are not supporting HDCD Decoding and can't guarantee that it will ever make it into the UDP-203 and UDP-205 players through a future firmware release.”

 

MediaTek makes SOCs (systems on chips) for media players. These run the firmware and define player capabilities as concerns A/V decoding, but not D/A conversion. The Oppo BDP-10X range uses the MediaTek MT8580 chip, which decodes a wide range of formats, including HDCD. When Pacific Microsonics sold their business to Microsoft, HDCD decoding ceased to be limited to just the old PMD chips, but was expanded to include other firmware and software solutions. This is how Windows Media Player was (is?) able to decode HDCD, how HDCD.exe and the programs that use its code are able to do it, and how the MediaTek chips are able to do it. The new MediaTek chip used in the UDP-20X range—perhaps the OP8581 to which you refer—no longer contains the hardware/firmware capability to decode HDCD, perhaps due to licensing cost or incompatible architecture.

 

I can't wait till April, but I'd really want them to iron out a lot of the kinks that are in the 203 first. It was definitely released too early, obviously to meet a Christmas deadline. They've been pretty good with FW upgrades, but the 203 is still not ready for prime time.
Any 205 release should be a fully working product, with minimal drama.

 

The Pacific Microsonics HDCD chips haven't been made since 2000 when Microsoft purchased HDCD. All HDCD players since then have used firmware decoding. Remember that anything like upsampling (common in most current DAC's) keeps HDCD from being decoded, so if the new chipset upsamples or otherwise converts or filters the incoming datastream at its input, HDCD decoding won't be an option. HDCD has to be done before any other filtering, upsampling, conversion or whatever.

 

All this talk about kinks in the 203 and the loss of HDCD really makes me wish I'd bought a non "D" 103 when I had the chance.
As an audio player 4K means nothing to me, the HDCD does.
Guess it was wrong to assume it would be there

 

The kinks will be worked out soon. Oppo is very responsive to the complaints so far. You could always get a used 103, there's always a bunch on eBay. If you don't need 4k, there really is no reason to get the 20x series.
There's absolutely no difference in AQ between the 203 and my 103D that I can tell. In fact, the 203 sounded much worse when I first compared them. I'm not sure if it was burn in or a FW upgrade, but it took a while to sound comparible from the analogs.
I'd wait to see some reviews of the 205 to see if they upgrade the AQ over the earlier models. Right now, it looks like they are just concentrating on getting 4K right.

 

From what I am reading and have heard from Oppo, the new 205 isn't a direct replacement for the 105. It will no longer be a smart player or support my Roku stick. While it may have a better DAC, it's really not much an upgrade unless you watch 4K movies or use multichannel sound (I have no plans for either).

I got my hands on the Sonica DAC and I'll say it's an improvement over the 105 but not jaw dropping or exponentially better. I'm at the point of reconsidering getting my 105 modded as it does so much right, it is hard to replace.

 

Thanks to all who responded, and everyone's focus was on the new Oppo player. Let me ask this one question and hopefully someone can respond. The player I have now, the 105-Darby. It does decode HDCD, but I'm not just real sure how it does it, as it does not have the PMD-100 or 200 chip in it, as one person said they were gone in 2000, so is this somewhat like the old SACD/ PCM scenario? Players are out there that play SACD's, but they change the DSD to PCM. Is the Oppo 105-Darby much like that, some sort of a compromise to play HDCD discs? Simple way to put this, is the HDCD disc as good the way Oppo handled it or Pacific Microsonics? That is the question.

 

Unless there's something particularly euphonic about the way the original PMD chips decode HDCD—that is to say, they introduce distortions that are pleasing to the ear—I don't think it would be particularly possible to say one way is definitively "better." The methods are different, but the functional result should be the same. I don't think your 105D is shortchanging you on HDCD decoding, and its D/A conversion is objectively quite good (but subjectively, some don't care for the sound), so it's probably one of the best HDCD players ever made in terms of how it measures.

 

Great and very understandable reply, I appreciate it so much. When you say that some folks don't care for the sound much, do you specifically mean the sound of an HDCD? I have found it does a nice job with red book CD's and many of the SACDs I have and my player is set to the native DSD output, so hopefully, I'm not converting to PCM.

 

No, I'm referring to the sound of the ESS Sabre32 ES9018 DAC in Oppo's implementation. It has been described as "clinical" and/or "harsh" by some; haven't heard it, can't comment (I own a 103D).

 

I have the NuPrime DAC 10 which uses the ES9018. I haven't heard this harshness or clinical sound at all. The Oppo Sonica DAC, newly released, sounds better in my estimation. It's using the ES9038 chipset.

 

I just wish the cost of the Stones Japanese SACDs weren't so prohibitive. As much as I love the Stones and great sound, I find it hard to justify the expense

 

They are not terribly expensive if you buy from CD Japan If you buy a handful, it evens out the shipping expense....then you get points to apply to your next order. FexEx international got to my home is 3 days...not bad for $30 shipping. Also you can deliver to a local FedEx store front location if you wont be home for signature.

 

Thanks, good to know

 

Personally I'm not really in the market for 4k but if this player can also act as a preamp it would be a must buy if they managed to incorporated the DIRAC Live system which I only hear positive things about! I'm sure it's too much to ask!?

 

And if you have a 103 or 105 you can make your own DSD files....what you do with the disc afterwards is up to you

 

In regard to your comment that the ESS Sabre DAC in the 105-D has been described by someone as clinical or harsh, I'm sure that is possible when compared to a DAC chip that costs several hundred dollars, say in an Esoteric piece. There are so many variables in this business, what amplification the user has, what speakers, quality of speakers, combination of components, tubes, transistors, connectors, cabling, power filtering, acoustic treatments, and the list goes on and on until one goes crazy. If ever there was a "talking points" term, certainly "clinical" must be right at the top of the list, and "harsh" I like that one, and think of either terrible listener fatigue or a bad skin rash. What is a clinical sound anyway, a sound that smells like alcohol? We are talking about a piece (Oppo 105-D) that was engineered and engineered, and virtually does everything and plays everything, and streams everything, and in my opinion does a pretty darn good job with everything. I'm sure if someone stuck a $400.00 DAC chip in that player, sure it would sound better, but it costs $1,336.00 including freight, and it's net cost is probably around $600.00, so if you want to consider it middle of the road audio/video equipment, well I suppose the CD/SACD reproduction cannot compare to the top Esoteric players, but again everything is relative. I have all the best HALO Parasound products, again, relatively speaking, could be considered middle of the road, but for me, using the Parasound amplification with the Oppo 105-D has been very enjoyable for me. Listening to Telarc, Reference Recordings (SACD), (CD), (HDCD), I have listened to some beautifully recorded music. I have compared what I have right now to Mark Levinson CD players, a Sony SCD-1 SACD player, a Sony model 5400 SACD player, Sony 9000 SACD player, very expensive Classe DAC's and amplification, really expensive Jeff Rowland BIG amplification, and I am not hearing 10 cents worth of difference. Like me, most people have very few outlets to sit and listen to dozens of pieces of equipment, so I go with manufacturer reputation, lots of reviews, and lots of opinions of end users, and I believe my mid-fi equipment is really very nice. With the dozens of variables in all the equipment and especially loudspeakers available, for a few end users to say the DAC that a very popular and successful manufacturer has decided to use in it's flagship piece of equipment that does everything but make a chocolate milkshake, I just kind of blow it off when they say the ESS Sabre DAC sounds Clinical or harsh, come on. Truth be known, they are probably using some Opus X-31 Realistic speakers in their comprehensive testing.

 

The Oppo 105 may not be the best but it does everything right....I wish more companies would have followed suit and made similar players. Oh and they answer the PHONE! +++++++ And honored their warranty even after the one year term expired.