ORG Ultimate Edition 180gram, double 45rpm LPs

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Solaris, Jan 23, 2009.

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  1. Engineer X

    Engineer X Forum Resident

    Got this news today:
    ORG to release CHARLES MINGUS MINGUS AH UM 180g 45rpm 2LP
    Mastered by Bernie Grundman from the Original Analog Master Tapes!
    Only 2500 Numbered Limited Edition Copies Worldwide!

    Wonder if this will be from the "Classic Records" stampers, or did Bernie master it a second time
     
  2. blue

    blue Mastering rules

    Location:
    sweet spot
    same question for the new AP 45 RPM BRUBECK TIME OUT in case someone knows. I'd wonder if there was a new mastering....
     
  3. Curious as well...
     
  4. Jody

    Jody Active Member

    Location:
    USA
    Put me down for one of those.
     
  5. btf1980

    btf1980 Senior Member

    Location:
    NYC
    Looking forward to the 45RPM Mingus Ah Um.

    Here are slated dates for upcoming 45RPM titles with links to Elusive Disc. There are a few more, but these are the notable titles imo.

    September

    Charles Mingus - Mingus Ah Um http://www.elusivedisc.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ORGLP0130-45

    Duke Ellington - Blues in Orbit http://www.elusivedisc.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ORGLP0120-45

    October

    Duke Ellington - Jazz Party in Stereo http://www.elusivedisc.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ORGLP0131-45

    Rosemary Clooney and Perez Prado - A Touch of Tabasco http://www.elusivedisc.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ORGLP0132-45

    December

    Bill Evans Trio '65 http://www.elusivedisc.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ORGLP0142-45

    Nina Simone - Silk and Soul http://www.elusivedisc.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ORGLP0140-45
     
  6. AaronW

    AaronW Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    The original Getz Au Go Go "stereo" LP sounds like fake stereo, the mono is vastly superior, is the ORG real stereo, mono or something else?
     
  7. hvbias

    hvbias Midrange magic

    Location:
    Northeast
    I have Crescent and Live at the Village Vanguard from this series and they sound fantastic.

    Does anyone have any comments on the Coltrane/Hartman?
     
  8. SergioRZ

    SergioRZ Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Portugal
    From memory (been a while) I remember the 45rpm Coltrane/Hartman sounded really great! :righton:
     
  9. Paul Chang

    Paul Chang Forum Old Boy, Former Senior Member Has-Been

    Has ORGLP0023-45 Coleman Hawkins / Desafinado ever been released? Is its master lost just like ORGLP0019-45 Sonny Rollins / Alfie ?
     
  10. blue

    blue Mastering rules

    Location:
    sweet spot
    I now read at analogplanet.com, that the Stravinsky/Oranges (Mercury), which was also done a second time in 45RPM for ORG after being released as 45RPM for CR, was newly mastered on Grundman's new mastering chain. Fremer describes the sound as "harmonically and texturally richer" compared to the 45 RPM CR reissue. Meaning, it's not from the same stampers..

    I wonder if all this the shouldn't also be valid for the new AP masterings of the respective Grundman masterings for CR and for Mingus Ah Um on ORG.

    Anyhow the thread about the Brubek/Timeout ORG 45RPM mastering shows a totally different experience than Fremer had on the Stravinsky.


    I know, I'm comparing outcomes on 3 different recordings, but I wonder if the outcome shouldn't be roughly the same if the difference is only the new mastering chain of Grundman...
     
  11. SergioRZ

    SergioRZ Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Portugal
    Yes this is my understanding based on all the experiences, tests and readings... these later BG signed reissues coming from AP and ORG are not just reusing the old Classic Records masterings.

    I tend to believe that the reason why Brubeck Time Out on AP45 sounds much worse than the other reissues you mentioned (and compared to the old Time Out CR cuts) might be related to the source that was used. Unlike Ah Um and Stravinsky, the Brubeck reissue makes no mention of Original Master tapes (not even the word Analog is used anywhere).

    .
     
  12. Engineer X

    Engineer X Forum Resident

    Stop me when I'm wrong. Didn't Acoustic Sounds purchase Classic Records? Wouldn't they own all the metal parts? When Analogue Productions decided to do the 45rpm "Time Out", and IF they didn't have access to the Master Tape, why wouldn't they just grab the Classic Records stampers and pop them on. Also save the scratch you would have to pay Bernie.
     
  13. Engineer X

    Engineer X Forum Resident

    Anyone hear ORG's Ornette Coleman - Shape of Jazz to Come yet. Looking foward to this
     
  14. SergioRZ

    SergioRZ Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Portugal
    I don't have the answer to any of those questions. But the fact is that the latest AP reissue of Dave Brubeck Time Out sounds very different from the older Classic Records reissues, they didn't reuse the metal parts and the mastering sounds quite different (the mastering engineer is the same). At least with this particular album, something strange happened and I suspect it's related to the source being used as that is the only reasonable possibility at this point...

    .
     
  15. Sckott

    Sckott Hand Tighten Only.

    Location:
    South Plymouth, Ma
    It would pay to have new stampers cut, especially if they believe the sales will warrant the new work.

    At $60, I think if they merely used the same stampers, it'll stop people from caring/buying. Good jazz reissues are important, but... damn!
     
  16. Engineer X

    Engineer X Forum Resident

    With how much those out of print Classic's are getting right now, $60. is a deal.
    After the great reviews that the Classic "Ah Um" receives and from owning the excellent Classic "Time Out", I would prefer it if the already proven Classic stampers were used. If it ain't broke....
     
  17. drbryant

    drbryant Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    If they have the Classic stampers, could they just use them to do the Zep 45's again (assuming they acquired the rights to do so)? I have the Classic 45 rpm box, and it is terribly heavy and unwieldy, with 4 200 gram single-sided disks for each single LP (thus PG and TSRTS have 8 disks each). These sets are very rare and expensive today - there is a LOT of demand. It would be great if Acoustic Sounds could repress Led Zeppelin using the Classic stampers on 180 gram 2-sided disks, and put them in nice gatefold sleeves (PG and TSRTS would need to be 4-LP box sets) and sell them for $50 each. It would make a lot of fans very happy.
     
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  18. Engineer X

    Engineer X Forum Resident

    anyone?
     
  19. rocky dennis

    rocky dennis Forum Resident

    Location:
    norcal
    My initial impression of the ORG Shape of Jazz to Come on first listen was that it sounded brighter than I remember the recording to be. So I compared the ORG to other pressings I had on hand, an original mono pressing with the bullseye label and a 70s stereo pressing cut by George Piros. The ORG may be slightly more bright than the other pressings, but what I took for brightness was really the horns sounding more washed out (more glassy and less brassy), especially Cherry's trumpet, than on the other pressings. It's not a huge difference, but it's not an improvement over the GP copy, which is very good and fairly easy to find at a decent price. The ORG also sounds slightly sluggish in pacing compared to the GP and mono pressings. My conclusion: Save yourself the $$$ and get a clean 70s GP pressing of this album.
     
  20. Engineer X

    Engineer X Forum Resident

    rocky, thanks for the advice. I think I'll buy it, just because I have every other pressing of this iconic album.
    Any word on the SQ of the B,S & T ORG 45 RPM?
     
  21. groovenoter

    groovenoter Forum Resident

    Location:
    Singapore
    Please also see my reply posted on the "Music Direct announces ORG SACD" thread above.

    Original Recordings Group aka ORG is a totally separate entity from ORG Music which was started a
    couple of years ago by one of our former partners.

    The ORG130 Charlie Mingus: Mingus Ah Um double 45 rpm release is a completely new remaster by
    Bernie Grundman, as are all our ORG releases, and utilises a totally updated mastering and cutting chain.

    We do not have access to any old stampers from Classic Records, nor would we ever want to use them.

    Thanks for your interest and support.
     
    hvbias and Monsieur Gadbois like this.
  22. blue

    blue Mastering rules

    Location:
    sweet spot
    Owning the 45 RPM 4LP Classic Records issues, I now bought Mingus Ah Um and Stravinsky Love for three Oranges as ORG 45 RPM to compare.

    What I hear: the difference is definitely more than just the different pressing could be. So it must have been done newly.

    The ORG Mingus to my ears sounds clearly more dynamic and lively, but on the downside it's clearly brighter at top end, but tonally quite the same otherwise. So the old CR sounds more pleasing to the ear on top, but a bit boring in comparison due to the recessed Dynamics. On the other hand I like the space/ambience a bit better on that CR one. Interesting to have both, None is better all in all for me. The ORG one would be if cymbals weren't so bright.

    The ORG Stravinsky Oranges to my ears sounds clearly worse than the CR one. It's just the opposite of what Fremer writes. The old Classic Records sounds clearly richer (was not so with the Mingus) and top end is also nicer sounding and less bright (as with the Mingus). But here I can hear no clear difference in Dynamics and livelyness, if again the CR has little bit nicer space/ambience to my ears. I definitely don't need the ORG issue here and I'm glad to still have 2 issues of the CR 45 RPM Firebird, too. It seems it won't get better from BG than the old CR were for those Mercury's.

    If "better" mastering chains at BG also mean brighter again, that lowers all other improvement. I wish SH would do them all.
     
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  23. '67 Chevy

    '67 Chevy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ohio
    How is the level of "brightness" and treble level determined during mastering? Is it by some sort of analog or graphic level meter, or is it strictly by ear?
     
  24. blue

    blue Mastering rules

    Location:
    sweet spot
    I don't know it, but I'm pretty sure it's depending on Monitoring Equipment, personal taste and/or what the client wants. And I'm also pretty sure, the measure is the ear, not a meter.

    When I write "bright" actually it's mostly more complex what I really mean, especially with some BG masterings. A very natural treble can be a little brighter without influencing the Overall Sound in a negative way too much. If the top end is Kind of unnatural, thin or harsh sounding at the same time, little variations have more influence IMO. So when I write "bright", in many cases I not just mean "louder treble". I just use the word to simplify all this.
     
  25. hvbias

    hvbias Midrange magic

    Location:
    Northeast
    blue do you have a 6-eye pressing of Mingus Ah Um to compare to the ORG/CR?
     
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