Original UK Mono Pepper vs. 2014 mono Pepper

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Barnyard Symphony, Apr 29, 2018.

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  1. Alex Zabotkin

    Alex Zabotkin Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pepperland
    Really? :doh: Then you should know that Sean Magee, the 2014 mastering engineer, "didn't do anything at all" when he mastered the 2014 mono Pepper. He followed the "please cut flat" note from 1967.
     
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  2. Onder

    Onder Senior Member

    Why would they sell them as digitally improved? The 2014 are 100% analog cuttings. No digital step was involved in the process. Master tape to analog EQ to cutting lathe. That's it.

    Ondra
     
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  3. DRM

    DRM Forum Resident

    Okay, I acknowledge he SAYS he didn't do anything at all. But people report the 2014 sounding different than the originals. Some explaining that the 1967 required certain EQ because of the record players of that era. And the article at the end states, "to alter two banks of EQ, you've got to get the fader down, get the fader up..." Really, he's all over the place switching from 2014 then quickly to 1967 and then to 2009. Solid state 2014 vs. 1967 tube also remains an issue. Do these 2014's reveal more because of modern equipment and techniques? Or are they a straight "reissue" of the authentic and original 1967? Or an interesting overpriced semi-replica novelty?
     
  4. DRM

    DRM Forum Resident

    I totally understand that. My point was, unlike some digital remasters, the selling point was All Analog, AAA, and particularly faithfulness to the original 1967. And yes, they are faithful in some respects but differ in other ways. But they REALLY push their authenticity.
     
  5. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    You're not reading it right.

    Geoff Emerick was scolded in 1967.

    Also, once a record is cut, it's cut. The head of production couldn't have made a change once the mastering engineer made a (flat) cut.

    He's not all over the place. He states Pepper was cut flat. But he doesn't say the other albums were cut flat. Altering the EQ would have applied to the other albums.

    The only questionable thing is the suggestion that all of the changes had to be made between tracks. He doesn't *explicitly* say that, but it's suggested. While you have to quickly switch from one EQ to the other between tracks, actually setting the EQ happens leisurely during the preceding song.
     
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  6. Alex Zabotkin

    Alex Zabotkin Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pepperland
    Some of the original 60's cuts (-1N AHDN, BFS etc.) were rejected by EMI's QC at Hayes because of jumping. :sigh: In such cases, it was Horace Hack who ordered his engineers to make adjustments and cut new lacquers.
     
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  7. Uglyversal

    Uglyversal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney
    Were the changes based in reducing the bass to have more room or something else, do you know?
     
  8. Alex Zabotkin

    Alex Zabotkin Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pepperland
    Judging by some of the notes (you can find them in The Beatles In Mono book), they had to cut some of the low end and/or increase the basic groove depth "to reduce tendency to jump".
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2018
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  9. Gems-A-Bems

    Gems-A-Bems Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Duke City
    It was the first one I could find at the time that helped proved one of my points. I’m still waiting for that other person to provide any evidence at all that supports their assertions of “smiley-face EQ” and added compression.
     
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  10. Dinstun

    Dinstun Forum Resident

    Location:
    Middle Tennessee
    It wasn't an interview. It was questions submitted by readers, presumably through email.

    There is actually a lot of information in some of the answers that I find interesting. I especially appreciate Magee's no-nonsense answers.
     
  11. StateOfTheArt

    StateOfTheArt Beatle Know-it-all

    Location:
    Greenville, SC
    The amount of sheer work that went into this - its amazing the set wasn't a fortune and released only as a box set. The fact it was offered as single releases blows my mind. I feel kind of like they threw the little guy a bone there.
     
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  12. Uglyversal

    Uglyversal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney
    In case you haven't noticed several of our posts are no longer there for a good reason, I would have told you again to go back and read a particular older post but that seems to be gone too so now is too late and I will not engage with you any further on that particular matter, period.

    As for the for the tube cutting thread, I did read it and I am very glad it wasn't a long one. I didn't find a great deal of information as the only poster that had a proven background in this field to talk about it was the owner of this site and his comments were pretty scarce.

    One thing I do remember him pointing out that the only way to get a tape to sound right was to play it back in the machine that was recorded and that sometimes even that doesn't work well. I thought that was an interesting point but we are still in the darkness as to how much of a difference just the tube cutting provides. Since all this came because of the supposed coloration valve equipment introduces but many seem to forget the amplifiers for the mics, the mixers and the tape recorders would have been valve equipment. So, just because you take the valves from the lathe that doesn't get rid of all the chain of valve equipment that was used and is already on the tapes for as long the tapes last.
     
  13. Uglyversal

    Uglyversal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney
    It's called making money, I don't think the studios or the owners of the copyright are in the business of making favours to the little guy.
     
  14. DRM

    DRM Forum Resident

    So it wasn't cut flat...
     
  15. DRM

    DRM Forum Resident

     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2018
  16. DRM

    DRM Forum Resident

    Which includes plenty of marketing...
     
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  17. StateOfTheArt

    StateOfTheArt Beatle Know-it-all

    Location:
    Greenville, SC
    Sure - did you expect them to do this for free? They could've made it a box set with a price of 2k but they offered it as individual titles as well at 22 dollars. I mean come on.
     
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  18. Uglyversal

    Uglyversal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney
    For sure some would have sold regardles but you tell me how popular would the box been if it was priced at 2k? As for 22 per title, lets not forget we are talking the Beatles, 50 years old records, I have no idea how many reissues there have been in how many countries. Millions and millions of records still doing the rounds around the globe, if they don't price them sensibly how would you expect to sell them? I don't know how many they pressed but must have been quite a lot, at $22 is not expensive by any means but is not really below the cost of many of other artists releases either and they also have to compete with a massive second hand market with something that buyer base is probably shrinking too.

    Edit: I never said I expected them free but you made it sound like they were doing us a favour.
     
  19. Gems-A-Bems

    Gems-A-Bems Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Duke City
    I guess you didn’t really read that thread, then, because it talked specifically about that situation of double tube coloration. I suggest reading it again.

    So we agree that assertions of supposed smiley-face EQ & additional compression on the 2014 are erroneous?
     
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  20. Alex Zabotkin

    Alex Zabotkin Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pepperland
    How'd you guess? :biglaugh: It's still OK to prefer the original, alright? :agree:

    You might also like to know that "the album was essentially cut flat" in '67, because they only made "a couple of minor EQ adjustments". You should read Geoff's book, it's pretty much essential. :D

    The 2014 was cut absolutely flat as originally intended, as per Sean Magee's comment:


    Can we move on now? :faint:
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2018
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  21. StateOfTheArt

    StateOfTheArt Beatle Know-it-all

    Location:
    Greenville, SC
    Well - as a fan - I welcome anything new or reissued by this band. they essentially are doing me a favor any time there is a chance to go back to the drawing board and say how can we make this more faithful to the tape than the original pressings.
     
  22. Uglyversal

    Uglyversal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney
    I think I was very clear on my previous post, perhaps you want the attention drawn to the moderators because you are attempting to start the same business again. I did not report it before but this time I will if you insist on this.

    On a different matter:

    So far as I remember the double tube coloration referred to cutting with tube and playing with tube. At no time the tubes on the reel deck were taken into consideration or the tubes in other equipment used for that matter.

    I could read it again but will make little difference because if current Beatles reisue are made with SS cutting but they still have the coloration of the original reel tape tubes when you add tube playback at somebody's home still equal double tube coloration, or doesn't it?
     
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  23. lawz

    lawz Well-Known Member

    Location:
    la, ca
    As someone who s just spent over 100 dollars on SPLHCB (sadly it s not 2014 anymore)
    I would like to know WHY.... why isnt it worth it!?

    Could you pls elaborate on that?... is there an equally good version for LESS money? VINYL only please.

    I don't think so..

    www.ebay.com/itm/142863457493 - this one is highly regarded but it s NOT cheaper

    OR do you expect them to reissue the monos again? Hi-Res digital, maybe, but VINYL???
     
  24. DRM

    DRM Forum Resident

    Yes. I just wanted to see all the varied faces you ended up posting as you acknowledged that...Yes. It. Was. Not. Cut. Flat.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2018
  25. DRM

    DRM Forum Resident

    I just think it's similar to the housing bubble that eventually burst. I think there could be a 2019 repress of the 2014 but some discount any report of this. And yes, it's difficult to find original first issue vinyl in decent condition for a decent price. And yes, so many will never recognize how great sounding original paper label UK Beatles cassettes can sound on a good deck...I know also you specified mono and vinyl. When prices have skyrocketed so quickly...I question making a purchase at this time.
     
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