Ortofon 2M Black or Dynavector 20x2...?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by VinBob, Jan 26, 2015.

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  1. VinBob

    VinBob Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    Hello All,

    I am currently looking to move away from a Dynavector DV10x5 which is not mating well with my Naim NAC72 preamplifier. I either have too much gain or not enough - I did not get the best advice (nor did enough research on my own!) when choosing this cartridge with my VPI turntable for my Naim system...

    I am now at the point where I can either stick with the cartridge I have and solve the matching issue via a separate phono preamp which I have seen tremendous improvement using one on loan from a friend, or simply swap out the cartridge.

    I am looking to swap the cartridge as this would probably be the easiest while not changing or adding any more components into my system and I am now torn with either going down the MM or MC route. I am leaning towards the Dynavector 20x2L although I also read great things about the Ortofon 2M Black. I am able to support both cartridge types as I have both the MM and MC boards for my Naim NAC72.

    I am looking to use these cartridges on a VPI Scout turntable which uses a unipivot arm and am looking for the best solution around at that price point, that is going to give me a great dynamic 3D sound with good sound-staging where the instruments will really pop out with good highs and nice bass extension.

    Would appreciate any thoughts/recommendations from those familiar with these two cartridges and better yet, with use on Naim preamps too!

    As always, thanks in advance all..

    Cheers,
    Vin.
     
  2. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    the 20x2L was a big win for me. outstanding balanced frequency response, low groove noise unlike the black's shibata and the exciting dynamics that come from a low mass moving coil assembly and its ability to rapidly respond to changing groove geometry.
    it sounds powerful with 60db gain. enjoy.
     
    Gardo, conjotter and octaneTom like this.
  3. Vernoona

    Vernoona Well-Known Member

    the 20X2L is a notable step up from the 2M Black. I've heard them both on the same turntable. it is more refined; classier. much better with surface noise.

    VPI & Dynavector go very well together.
     
    conjotter likes this.
  4. VinBob

    VinBob Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    Thanks for the feedback. I am just hoping my Naim pre-amp will be able to do it justice as I won't have the funds to add a phono preamp!!! lol
     
  5. VinBob

    VinBob Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    Have you heard them both on a VPI scout turntable? Or just the same TT in general?
     
  6. Vernoona

    Vernoona Well-Known Member

    no it wasn't on a Scout, it was on a Rega P5
     
  7. raferx

    raferx Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vancouver, Canada
    So, I'm guessing you have both MM and MC plug-in modules installed?
     
  8. VinBob

    VinBob Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    No, I can only have one installed at a time in my NAC72, but I do have both sets of boards.
     
  9. BayouTiger

    BayouTiger Forum Resident

    I haven't heard the 20x2 but I can't confirm that the Black is very unforgiving of surface noise. On pristine vinyl, it's stunning, but on the old stuff if shown every wart. I have a second wand for my Scout and use my MP500 for noisy records. It's still not vey forgiving, but better than the Black.

    Curious for a report back on the 20x2 as it's likely my next cart.
     
  10. raferx

    raferx Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vancouver, Canada
    Do you know how much gain the MC module has? IME. The 20x2L performs far superior with 66~70 dB of gain with an active MC pre.
     
  11. BayouTiger

    BayouTiger Forum Resident

    Wow! I thought 60 was about the top needed for anything.
     
  12. jupiterboy

    jupiterboy Forum Residue

    Location:
    Buffalo, NY
    62 would be ideal using KAB calc, so that depends on how well the amp/speakers mate. I never can find real specs on the VPI arms 7.7 g effective mass? 9 g? Getting a good match is going to be the way to go. A great cart will sound meh on the wrong arm.
     
    raferx likes this.
  13. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    Running the x2L with 60 db gain and it is as loud and dynamic as I could have hoped, exceeding expectations. Actually sounds louder than a 5mv moving magnet cart with 40 db gain.
     
    Gardo likes this.
  14. Spitfire

    Spitfire Senior Member

    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    I've had both plus a 20X2H on my P5. I am currently breaking in a 20X2L and so far it's been great. I prefer either Dynas over the 2M Black. I also actually preferred the 2M Bronze over the Black.
     
    Gordon Johnson and KT88 like this.
  15. KT88

    KT88 Senior Member

    I agree.
    -Bill
     
    Gardo likes this.
  16. Threshold

    Threshold Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Manchester NH
    I bought the 20x2L along w/the P-75 MKIII Dynavector phono about 9 months ago. Best combo I ever had on my Linn.
     
    Gardo and Pancat like this.
  17. tman53

    tman53 Vinyl is an Addiction

    Location:
    FLA
    I have the 20x2H installed and it has taken vinyl listening to a new level with my Scout.
     
  18. jupiterboy

    jupiterboy Forum Residue

    Location:
    Buffalo, NY

    Looks like there are several flavors of the MC boards. The DV cart is going to be much better than the Ortofon. If I were you, I would strongly consider an AT F-7 with the K or the S board. I think you would be blown away at 1/4 of the price of the DV.
     
  19. Gordon Johnson

    Gordon Johnson Forum Resident

    Location:
    You are here
    This says so much for getting the match correct, any chance to hear both of the preferred choice?
    I had tons of issues with the 2M Black and my old naim nait on some vinyl. A change of amp really has brought the best out of the 2M Black that it would be difficult if not impossible to better the match with any other MM and the LFD.
     
  20. VinBob

    VinBob Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    The 'S' and 'K' MC boards both have the same, 100 uV, sensitivity. They differ in the load they present to the cartridge - 470R for the 'S' and 560R for the 'K'. I have the K boards which I assume will work just fine for the 20x2 - although if better, I can always look to get my 323 K modified to an S board...

    Any thoughts on this...? Thanks in advance!
     
  21. raferx

    raferx Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vancouver, Canada
    So, by "470R" is that Ohms? You want no more than 100 Ohms IME.
     
  22. REV76

    REV76 New Member

    Location:
    Detroit
    The 2M Black is a solid cartridge after it breaks in (a day or two). The phono pre-amp is a better route, because that will have a bigger impact on the sound.
     
  23. jupiterboy

    jupiterboy Forum Residue

    Location:
    Buffalo, NY
    I have a 12 Ohm, >100 Ohm cart (mentioned previously) loaded at 475 Ohms and it sounds divine. I can do 680 as well, which is not bad. I’ll say again, matching is the key, and a good stylus/cart design. Mabye someone can comment on having a resonant frequency pushing 11 Hz. I’m at a place where 10 Hz is seeming an apparent advantage of the high 8s or low 9s.
     
  24. migman

    migman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Metro Detroit
    I have a Scoutmaster 2 and I started off with a 2M Black and it was great. Then I got a second armwand with a 20X2L and I find it to be better than the Black in every way. I am currently using the AD-10 phono stage in my Accuphase E-560 with 62dB of gain and the 20X2L sounds fantastic.
     
    KT88 likes this.
  25. VinBob

    VinBob Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    Hello All,

    just wanted to provide a quick update. I am in the process of exchanging my 10x5 for the 20x2L low output moving coil cartridge which should work a lot better with my MC K boards. I will update with results once I get the cartridge and am all setup!

    In the meantime, I am also still open to a phono stage in bettering what I have down the road and given my cartridge choice, can anyone kindly recommend a good phono stage in the $700-$1000 range? Should I go with what might seem an obvious match with the Dynavector P75 or are there better ones for the money? Looking for something that will provide a nice 3d sounstage with great instrument separation and nice highs with cymbals etc.

    Thanks in advance!
     
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