Ortofon 2M Bronze on Pro-Ject Debut Carbon

Hello,

I am looking for an upgrade from the 2M Red on my Pro-ject Debut Carbon. I read some good things about the 2M Bronze. The 2M Bronze is however only 100 dollar under the price of the whole turntable.

I read different opinions about replacing a cartbridge wich is almost the same price as the turntable.
Some say the investment is not worth it and the cartbridge will not show its fully potential.

Do you think the Debut Carbon is up to the Bronze or is it better to spent my money on an 2M Blue?

Thanks!

 

Get the bronze. It's way better than either the Red or the Blue. You can always move it onto another table if you upgrade further later. No loss there. The only losers are the ones who suffer through listening to cheap cartridges because they don't think their table is worth the upgrade to a better cartridge.
-Bill

 

The 2M Bronze is a wonderful cartridge, but the Debut Carbon hardly can give enough justice to it's potential, IMO. Better go for the 2M Blue - exellent cartridge aswell.

 

Not sure if that is really the case.. It will still sound better than the Red or Blue I bet ..

 

I 2nd this. Go for the bronze, for the reasons Bill stated.

 

Making this jump I would also be considering if your phono stage is going to impede your sonic progress. This is where many things come into play.

 

I have this set up. It works very very well. The bronze was already broken in (it takes some time). Pay attention to the capacitance of your preamp, the lower the overall capacitance of the turntable cable and preamp the better it will sound. The stock cable is decent enough, but getting an even lower capacitance and shorter cable will make it shine.

 

I have the Bronze installed on a Pro-Ject 1.2, no issues at all, it sounds great.

 

Bravo! Ivor Tiefenbrun would would slap you silly for saying that, but I've never been much of a believer in his fantasies.
-Bob

 

But even Ivor Tiefenbrunn uses Pro-Ject tonearms on his entry level LP 12's. So i doubt he would NOT say that the Bronze is okay for the 8.6 on the Carbon Debut. We are not telling him to use a Koetsu or LYRA MC cart - just a better stylus within basically the same cartridge body..

 

Who's Ivor Tiefenbrunn?

 

Just upped my Red to a Black on my new RP6 and it is fantastic, I wish I had bought the cart for the musichall I had before the Rega!

 

Thanks for your answers guys. I am using a Pro-Ject Phono Box II as pre-amp. Is this any good for the Ortofon 2M Bronze?

 

He is the founder and chief guru of Linn Audio and was the first to postulate the primacy of the turntable (specifically his own LP-12) over cartridge and tonearm in determining the quality of sound produced by an analog system. Among his many trenchant breakthroughs was the observation that excellence in audio equipment could be detected by the foot-tapping of listeners, as if every cheap boom-box ever produced would not make your toe tap, given toe-tapping music! Millions of audiophiles have swallowed this swill in sycophantic rapture that defies rational explanation.

-Bob

 

I get a lot of sibilance with my Ortofon 2M Red Cartridge, will the other cartridges in the 2M line reduce this?

 

Lovin my bronze on my P5, I would say it would be fine for you. Good price point, IMHO.

 

Could be alignment, but I learned the hard way what I told about excess capacitance and ortofons 2M. They work with a narrow margin, 150 to 300pf, and the nearer to 300 or over it becames harsh and unnaturally sibilant. If your alignment is correct, check the capacitance of the turntable cable and your preamp.

 

G'day all, I'm of the opinion that the 2M Red was/is a mistake. I had one and initially liked it, but came to loathe it and I gave it away. It's 'bright/in your face' sound drove me crazy.

I was told that high loading capacitance (beyond 300 picofarads overall) would tame this but that is at odds with Ortofon's own loading recommendation.

Re the sibilance, yes that's true. It is/was the only cartridge where very careful overhang set up could not eliminate the sibilance. However I am told that the other models are great and I hear very good comments about the 2M Bronze. Regards, Felix.

 

I said it wrong. I have the Pro-Ject Tube Box II. At first the Red seems bright. But after the break-in the brightness is gone. I don't have a real sibilance problem. More a distortion problem with some records with high voices. For example "Kate Bush - The Kick Inside".

 

I also have the 2M Red on a Debut Carbon - it seems a decent cart at times, but like everyone seems to mention there is a sibilance issue I didn't expect. Does anyone have this set-up without any sibilance problems? I'm using a Cambridge 540 preamp, which is rated at 200pf. I haven't bothered to check the alignment, and others mention it doesn't improve the situation. What's the truth on this supposed high-end cart known as the 2M Red??

 

It's an entry level cartridge, George, nothing more. I've used a Red and 540 extensively myself and even though I loved the sound, I can only confirm your experience with sibilance and inner groove distortion on critical listening (especially with louder cuts). I see a stylus or cartridge upgrade in your future. The 220pF input caps on the Cambridge are a handicap as well. I've replaced them with lower value/higher quality ones.

 

Well, yeah. I was going to replace with the AT440Mla, but that is not a good match with the Cambridge 540. The whole idea of the Debut Carbon was to stay affordable and keep it simple. It's a secondary bedroom system, but still... I did not expect to have to upgrade. Maybe I'll just wait and replace the Red with the Blue down the road.

 

George, the AT 440 tracks superbly and does not have sibilance and distortion issues related to tracking.

If it was me, of the 2 options I'd take the AT440's superlative tracking to eliminate those nasties (ie physical limitations), and then handle the brightness of the "not a good match" with the 540p (electrical limitations). I can turn down treble controls (or try some resistor based tweaking) on a well tracking cart. I'd rather do that than try and live with a poor tracking cart that matches electrically and sends distorted music to my amp.

YMMV, of course.

 

Agreed, I've had my 2M Red for 2 years - enjoy it immensely at times, but the sibiliance and IGD drives me up the wall occassionally. Most reviews of this cart make mention of these cons, but as you say, what do you expect for entry level? Ready for a Bronze me thinks.

 

A Bronze should be ok, but don't upgrade to a 2M Black on a Debut because its Shibata stylus is very sensitive to VTA and the Debut's tonearm has no height adjustment. Ortofon even mentions on their web site that the Black should only be used on a tt with adjustable VTA.