Ortofon 2m Red vs Blue?

Just noticed Drewen77 said he is using Baerwald! So,one of us is way out. His cartridge looks way too far back for that,looks more like Stevenson.

 

It looks like the Rega or Stevenson to me. Baerwald usual has the cartridge flush or a bit of it sticking out

 

I use Baerwald and mine is identical to the picture. If I use Stevenson or Rega it goes further back. No protractor I have tried have pushed the Ortofon 2M cartridge all the way to the front aligning with the arm. I believe this is a false statement circulating on the internet.

Also, Baerwald sounds the best of these three IMHO.

 

I've never used an Ortofon with Baerwald. But AT and Nag carts are almost flush or forward a bit. I'm using Rega with my 2m Blue and am about 2 mm back and parallel to the sides. No turn in. Baerwald is further forward than Rega or Stevenson by a bit in my experience.

And of course it does that's why you're using it.

Anyways hard to tell from the pics but no way the overhang should be the same.

 

Ok so to be clear, with Baerwald your a couple of mm back from the front of the head shell, and would be even further back with a Stevenson or Rega? Hmm I'm flush, and using Baerwald. I'm going to have another look.

 

Just looked at vinyl engine and the consensus seems to be that with Rega you're 2.5 to 3 mm back and baerwald is about 2mm forward of it. I just checked alignment and used a little steel ruler to check mine and it looks like I'm 3mm back or a hair less and line up perfect.

What protractor are you using. I'm thinking of grabbing a geodisk this weekend and trying it.

 

Russk I'm using the one that comes with the Hifi test record. I ended up flush with the slight twist toward the spindle. Im going to try it foward a touch,can't hurt :0).

 

I'm using the Rega Baerwald v.2 at Vinylengine. Be sure you have printed it in 100% otherwise everything will be wrong. Printers normally compress the image if you do not do anything before printing it. Stevenson will be a bit more back like below.


http://s1205.photobucket.com/user/geoffcb/media/CAM00013.jpg.html

 

i swapped red for blue on my debut carbon....its a night and day thing...big improvement...

 

I would love to hear a bit more from you on this cartridge swap (red to blue), if you're willing to expand on your comment a bit.

I bought my son a Debut Carbon with the supplied Ortofon Red. It has been set up carefully, but the distortion on the inner third of many LPs is exceedingly annoying. On even modest dynamic peaks, there is hash coming from one channel or the other. It's really the only problem with the 'table -- which does not hum or suffer any of the other problems that have been written about on this forum. The first half of most LPs sound very good, in fact.

I know this inner-groove distortion issue with the Debut Carbon and Ortofon Red has been discussed on this forum, but I'd appreciate opinions on whether merely upgrading to the Blue will solve the problem (assuming proper installation and alignment).

Much thanks in advance,
David B.

 

After my admited limited experience with Project tables I think some of it is the arm. I've heard reds on VPIs that track very well all the way through. That having been said the Blue is definitely a more refined and better tracker and its just because its a nude elliptical as apposed to the bonded one on the red. To me the blue sounds more detailed and open and free of all sibilance and IGD. The Reds I've heard all sounded pretty good but have a touch of sibilance and and minimal amount of IGD on difficult albums and they sound a bit congested.

What alignment are you using now?

 

It probably depends a little also what turntable the Rega is mounted on.
On my Gyrodec the Ortofon 2M Blue was set back a tad and fractionally turned in - the turn in improved the sound audibly too.
However - without height angle adjustment (VTA) on my gyrodec the ortofon was tilted downhill a little and it sounded brighter.
Initially sticking a mat on the turntable had the effect of levelling it and improved the bass to treble mix - but there was colouration
from the mat - being as the arm really needed a rewire as well I opted to just buy a Michel Techno arm
The same observations with slight turn in were made when I changed to my Nagaoka MP200 which in my set up suits a whole lot better.

 

From using various tables and carts and listening to many systems the cartridge and the alignment are two of the most important pieces for good sound. Any mainstream table will have youtube videos and instructions out the gazoo. It's just a matter of not being afraid and willing to take your time. Don't necessarily trust your dealer to do the setup right.

The blue is a nice jump in sound over the red. Plus the price of the blue isn't that exorbitant to give it a shot.

The best alignment is always going to be by the homeowner.

Make sure you have a good alignment protractor, digital VTF scale, and test record. That and the patience of Methuselah.

 

Here is a YouTube video comparing the Ortofon 2m Red vs Blue vs Black....worth viewing...

 

i think the inner groove distortion starts to go away once it settles in...Mine seemed harsh at first but started to mellow...

 

It's actually a comparison of the Ortofon 2m Blue, Bronze, and Black cartridges. I can't hear too much difference through my PC set-up but there is some slight difference, which is also what plays out when on a real hi-fi system, just not nearly as audible on the PC system.
-Bill

 

The differences a small steps - more the sort of thing you would notice over a longer listen - in short the 2M Blue has that slight distinctive
treble peak compared with the Black which is much more even handed yet slightly better resolved - the Bronze is quite literally in between the two
I notice a gentle veiling effect (smoother) yet still a strong top end - so maybe a wee bit easier yet still bright over the Blue - The black is smoother and more refined
yet with all the detail and resolution.
(I found it easier on Headphones over PC speakers systems)

 

My Blue came in the mail today. Can't wait to get home from work and swap out my Red for Blue. I haven't messed with cartridge alignment at all yet, just left my Carbon factory set, and plan to slide my Blue stylus into the Red body. I have a tendency to get OCD with fine tuning, so I'm not looking forward to starting down that path.

 

I've ben wondering for a while if the red and the blue bodies were equivalent and the difference was only the stylus? Are you positive that is indeed the case?

 

yes, its what i did....red cart blue stylus....carts are the same

 

Russ, are you using a spacer under your RP6 tonearm for the 2M Blue? (You may have mentioned this in another thread but I don't recall.)

 

Indeed they are. The 2m Red and the 2m Blue have the same body with the Blue having a nude mounted stylus and the Red a bonded stylus. Both use an adhesive for attachment but a nude mount has the diamond pressed directly into the metal cantilever forming a friction fit before gluing.

Similarly, the 2m Bronze and the 2m Black share the same bodies with each other and also only differ in their stylus profiles. The Bronze has a Fine Line and the Black a Shibata profile.
-Bill

 

I'm actually running it without a spacer and it sounds great. Ive been told that all non Rega Carts should have at least a 2mm spacer and I've been told that you only need spacers for fine line type stylus (and that since the Blue is an Elliptical I don't need one) and I've been told that you really need a 4mm spacer for the Ortofon Bronze and above by the 92 degree crowd (people who feel that the correct VTA is everything). My personal experience with VTA came from an unmodded Technics Sl1200 where VTA was only really causing notible effects on sound when it was way off. I am however going to give a 2mm spacer and a 4mm one a shot as soon as I have more time off work next weekend and of course I'm hoping for a big improvement in sound quality. That would be great. The Blue however sounds awesome without a spacer on the RP6

 

I swapped my Red for Blue this weekend. Only listened to a handful of songs so far, so I'm sure results are pending break in. Some initial thoughts were: volume was considerably lower with the Blue. I played a song on the Red before swapping out, and then the same song right after swapping for Blue. I noticed it but didn't say anything, then my brother pointed it out too. Not sure if increase in volume comes with break in. Also I noticed more pops and crackles with the Blue.

I'm still noticing high hat and cymbals more on the right speaker than the left. I was hoping the Blue would fix this, but it's still there. I'm hoping it's not azimuth that needs adjusted, not looking forward to that. I'm gonna try increasing VTF to 2.0 and maybe adjust the anti-skate weight. Anything else that would cause higher frequencies to be more pronounced in one channel vs the other? It's only with my turntable. When I play a CD through the same system, it's even.

 

could just be the way its recorded...a lot of recordings are not 50/50...could also be your amp or preamp...

I had the exact opposite experience...When I swapped red for blue it was obvious the blue was much better...