Over inflated record sales figures (Earth Wind and Fire, Thriller and others)

With the passing of Maurice White I have heard that Earth Wind and Fire have sold 90 million records.
Wiki has them at 100 million even though Wiki also shows their RIAA US certified albums sales.
I counted about 23 million.
That would mean that all of their singles sales, which don't appear to have certifications with the RIAA and album sales outside of the US totaled between 67 and 77 million.
That would mean that they sold way more worldwide than they did in the US which we know isn't the case.
Record companies grossly exaggerate artist's sales and it's pretty annoying.
Especially when you consider that certifications in other countries are much less than in the US.
Platinum in the US is a million but in other countries it's as low as 10,000 and up to about 100, 000 depending on the location.
This is why there is so much confusion over Michael Jackson's Thriller.
Many claim it's sold 100 million because it's gone platinum 100 times throughout the world.
However, only in the US is platinum a million, while everywhere else it's not even close to that.
So the 30 times platinum in the States is 30 million, but all the other platinum certifications it's only about 10 thousand or so and I think 100 thousand in the UK

 

I really don't think that's the source of the confusion. I think there are two other factors: one is markets that don't certify sales at all, third-world countries like, say, India or Peru or Nigeria. I don't know if EWF was selling in places like that (maybe), but Thriller certainly was. The other of course is that certification is of units shipped, not units sold. An overzealous record company willing to press and distribute half a million copies of an album will get gold certification even if most of those copies are subsequently returned unsold.

 

You also have to keep in mind that the artists you mention were prior to Soundscan, when counting units sold became much more accurate. Prior to that, music companies lied, fudged, bribed, etc to post sale numbers.

 

Doesn't matter. Thriller is and will always be the best selling album of all time.

 

Next you're going to tell me that McDonalds hasn't really served billions and billions.

 

Those Earth Wind and Fire albums sold like crazy back then across the board. Despite the revisionist history they were a big pop act not just an R&B act, those albums from 73-81 were multi-platinum albums for the most part except for Faces.

 

It matters when the figures are lies.
I agree it's clearly the best seller.
But they don't have to lie about it's totals.
I've often wondered how well Thriller, among other big vinyl LPs, did in the the re purchase era of CDs.
Naturally we can't expect it to have outsold hot CDs of the big artists of that CD only era, but I don't believe it has outsold all the albums that were original vinyl era albums once it was available on CD.
I'd like to see some figures of old vinyl classics for CD and download sales.

 

I love how the record companies state these inflated numbers for the press but when the artist asks about their royalties it's a whole different story. Motown was famous for not certifying their discs so they would not have to pay their artists their fair royalties.

 

The thing is there's a whole big wide world outside the USA...

 

Well here's how the Thriller's sales were by December 1984 in comparison to other albums

Michael Jackson-Thriller 20 million
Fleetwood Mac- Rumours- 12 million
Saturday Night Fever- 11 million
Prince and the Revolution- Purple Rain- 8 million
Lionel Richie-Can't Slow Down- 8 million

This is during the era when albums were big sellers and this is before the CD era. The other titles listed are acknowledged titles that were some of the big sellers of the time.

 

Yeah, I remember that. I'm curious as to how those albums and others have done on CD and/or download

 

Not for EW&F sales that don't have official figures attached to them.

 

Maybe but that doesn't mean it's any good (and it isn't).

 

That's just an opinion and in this case it does nothing to minimize Thriller's sales.

 

I was wondering about that myself. I know they had a few hits and were popular, but the media is going on and on about them like they sold Michael Jackson-type numbers.

 

Why do we know that they didn't sell more outside the US? Seems like your premise is based on a lot of assumptions.

 

When I was I college in the 70s it seemed like everyone had a copy of the EWF album with Shining Star. You couldn't go a day walking down a dorm hall without hearing that album.

 

also we should not forget that sales are not everything, the reason why all the best selling albums are from the 70's onwards is because the price as a ratio to earnings was much less, before that albums were relatively far more expensive as a ratio to earnings, had that not been the case the the best selling album titles could have been very different.

 

You obviously haven't seen my collection.

 

I think they sold very respectably in my part of the world. I have come across plenty of their vinyl in the bins over the years.

 

I'm guessing Lionel Richie's has tailed off a bit. Just sayin'.

 

This is incorrect. The RIAA counted UNITS SHIPPED for albums in the Late 1950's until scanning took over the world in 80's. Im sure MOST Copies of THRILLER are based on ACTUAL Sales and not on Units Shipped.

Not all Record Companies pay dues to the RIAA. For Example you will NEVER know how many copies of Jackson 5, DIana Ross/Supremes, Stevie Wonder, Temptations, Four Tops records were sold OR Shipped because MOTOWN did not pay RIAA dues. There are no RIAA awards for any of these artists until the latter 1970's when Motown finally stopped screwing over their artists.

The RIAA ONLY Certifies records when the Record Company PAYS THEM to do an Audit for a particular title. This is why MANY Classic Rock albums from the 1960's/70's were only certified GOLD (One Million Dollars worth of Units shipped up until April 1975 or 500,000 copies SHIPPED May 1975 until scanning).


Elton John/Beatles/Elvis/Pink Floyd/Zep etc etc Never received PLATINUM awards until MUCH later. The BEATLES 1960's albums weren't counted again until the 1990's....so for 30 years their albums were only "GOLD".

Do not use the RIAA as the Be all/End All for sales stats as their records will never be "Up to date" for the majority of records released. Record labels are hurting for cash these days and produce very few RIAA awards. They certainly aren't wasting money on audits either unless its to promote something.

 

Because most artists who are very successful in the US, have their greatest sales in the US due to mere population.
I'm not claiming all the other regions combined couldn't surpass US sales, but I highly doubt it would be 70 million worth.
Plus EW&F music was American based and their success was based on trends of the 70s in the US.

 

Soundscan in the US started in 91.
I realize the RIAA can be misleading but using it as a basic measuring stick to get a general idea, I have a hard time believing EW&F sold an additional 70 million outside of the states when they were a US band who played US music based on current trends of the day in the US.

 

Which has what to do with my OP?