Owned physical media and/or downloaded music vs streaming services.

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by Price.pittsburgh, Oct 28, 2017.

  1. ggg71

    ggg71 Forum Resident

    Boston, MA
    I've been thinking more about this, and interestingly, I feel completely different about video...

    I have very little desire to own movies or series. I watch them once, and then pretty much never again. I do have ~20 Blu-Rays of my FAVORITES. But I have no issue with renting/streaming 99% of what I watch.

    Music though I still like to own!
  2. JimW

    JimW Forum Resident

    Charlottesville VA
    Wow- that doesn't match my experience at all. I do have a cheap antenna- though only a few local stations here in Jefferson Country. And while I do see some improvement over cable, it still is far from blu quality. I still see compression artifacts- or at least noise I attribute to such. Maybe my locals somehow compress before putting it out OTA? It's a relatively small market and for instance my local Fox affiliate is actually a sub-channel of the CBS local.

    Again- very well-expressed thoroughness. But again, while I understand your perspective and don't disagree with everything you say, I think the biggest difference between our perspectives is where we think it's all headed. I'm not saying gloom and doom; just that where you see progress, I see decline.

    I believe everything is cyclical. There is a process of birth/creation, growth, maturity, decline/decay, death/destruction- for all forms matter takes, in it's infinite mutations. Rinse, repeat ad infinitum. Individual Civilizations all show this rising, then falling action, when viewed from after- and I believe human beings as a species follow this same path' like all previous life-forms. I believe that we are currently well within the decline phase as a species. Whereas we needed technology from the beginning to help us survive- starting w/ the simplest tools and that magic matter that is fire, we grew to depend on it to the point that it insidiously worked it's way into our life to the point we'd be lost without it. Imagine the chaos that would occur if (when?) there is a global loss of power for any significant time.

    I don't see it as good/bad; it's just the way it is. But I do think we can recognize the unhealthy aspects for what they are, regardless of how powerless we are to stop them. And I do believe we are becoming very robotic in nature as a species- ironically, just as machines are becoming more and more human. And I truly believe this is just the consequences of the evolution of wielding power. The 1% control the media, they control the governments, they control the capital and the key resources. Turning us into mindless workers/consumers just makes it easier to feed that gargantuan machine of power that will lead us to whatever end is in store for mankind.

    Bleak? Possibly. But then the story of Mankind has always had more than it's share of horror. I think the best we can do is recognize what it is so it's easier to do that accept the things I cannot change part- so we can better change the things we can- just tend to our own garden like Thoreau said.

    Regardless, one way or another, we have to accept things how they are and try to enjoy the ride. And while I may be a crass materialist for it, my music is one of the main things that keeps me sane. And I want to own it!
  3. no.nine

    no.nine (not his real name)

    And those CDs make up a very small percentage of all CDs in existence. The problems are mostly attributable to a specific, flawed manufacturing process which was in place at two manufacturers in the whole world. The process was also eventually corrected at both plants. A few other types of oddball degradation have also popped up randomly, but they're even more rare. We're not talking about anything which happens to the format automatically.

    I'm not as familiar with DVD issues, so I can't comment on them, but I wouldn't be surprised to find a similar type of situation exists with them.
    Grant likes this.
  4. genesim

    genesim Forum Resident

    St. Louis
    Perhaps you are not watching the right movies? The complete crap that makes up the majority of TV series are a prime example. While I love Breaking Bad, Mad Men, etc...I put them far far far below the classic movies that can be watched literally a zillion times and still see something new in them. 20 movies?? Really?

    Stanley Kubrick alone is worth having everything he did. But Kurosawa, Kieslowski, DePalma, P.T. Anderson, Hawks, Capra, Scorsese...

    To see any of those in stream quality is just a bastardization, to see their work once is a huge disservice, but hey, that is just me. I am a film and music buff. Hard to pick one over the other. Actually let me put it another way. The music and movies and books that I have enjoyed have literally changed my life. I love what I have become because of them and how they inspired me.

    Those artist meant for their work to be seen and heard in the best possible way. Again, that is just my opinion (and likely theirs too).

    You assume that because we work, because we consume that it is mindless or they are in control. Yet isn't it the "mindless" that has made them and actually tore them down when necessary?

    The "machine of power" is what for one truly support. Thank goodness for Capital records and the quality they bestowed or we wouldn't have the Beatles in any way shape or form that we have them now. Same goes for RCA Victor, MGM...whatever.

    I happily throw my money at these great studios/corporations because they have given me so much pleasure. Of course I don't really look at those corporations as having the "power" because they are made up of people like myself who do the work to make it happen.

    You see the CEO, I see all the people that make that CEO possible. And I also see that the workers with all the griping that they do about not being paid enough, not being taken care of yada yada....those CEO's that are seen as so much better are not as happy as you would think they should be and many of them die younger or are actually living in miseries that are far beyond our comprehension.

    The "1%" are not controlling anything that I have not consciously thrown my money at. I know exactly what I am doing when I buy the products and support the supposed terrible things that actually keep many great countries floating.

    Now is their excess and is there better ways things can be run, of course...and again back to that balance. If it is to be, than it will be. Or some people will war and break apart (and sad to say, may take some nukes....I hope not), and start all over. Nothing you or I will do can change that. But something tells me it isn't so quick to happen as some people want to believe.

    You see "horror", I say the horror is part of the seed that makes the good. It is all relative. I see with every terrible thing that has happened, it has also snapped people back to doing better things. We are so pompous as to think our death and destruction is so much more, yet take a Bunny rabbit out in the wild getting ate up by a Cat of some kind. To that little Bunny it isn't worrying about the rest of the world (and the pompous humans think they are oh so much more important and should be worrying about everyone else), that bunny is feeling the jaws of death in that very moment.

    As for the global chaos if power is lost. Man ever watch Walking Dead? Yes chaos, people do this, people do that....but then you get a state of rebuilding. Separate the strong from the weak. Get communities back, and yes people have to figure out other ways. So the power goes out, you think people won't figure out how to get it back on? You think people won't just walk out and burn something for starters? The wild west only lasted for a short amount of time. The reason it didn't continue is because the "wild" doesn't work. As for imagining it, I don't. I have more faith in people and yes I do not see the bleak. The "chaos" is like the movie Watership Down. If you are not solving problems or having them, than you are not living. Worrying about what could happen is not going to change it. But like I say with Blurays against streaming, I don't really worry about it at all. Matter of fact, I am amused by it, because there are going to be a lot of peeved people when the rug is pulled out from under them. I just hope they keep selling. The deals have been simply awesome!

    Now just because we feel somewhat the opposite, I still have enjoyed this debate. I have appreciated truly civilized discussion. It has been very impressive. I think we all could learn a lot from each other and the discussion has been simply amazing.

    As for the antennae I am speaking about events like HD ballgames or the Olympics. That is what looks better than bluray for obvious reasons. There is nothing like a live feed. It is unadulterated, uncompressed goodness. By the way, shopping channels are pretty good too. Again, those are live, and I am mesmerized by women modeling ...for artistic reasons of course.

    I am not speaking about movies or tv shows that are taped and displayed over compressed second/third generation backed up garbage. They are crap and will always be crap. Sure I pick HD Seinfeld over DVD, but this is an obvious exception because of it being filmed and some care was taken in how it was processed.
  5. Grant

    Grant A Brady-Boomer Musical Free-Spirit

    You are very wrong.
    SandAndGlass and Deesky like this.
  6. genesim

    genesim Forum Resident

    St. Louis
    A server goes over the net. Just like with hard drives and data errors, the server itself also has those issues and more when it comes to the physics of sending a signal over far distances. That and any host uses data compression of some kind. Once destination is arrived, is it hitting blutooth at any point? You are aware of the limitations of blutooth compared to say....a wired connection.

    You ever have a hiccup in data? If you haven't, then you are special to all the people that have ever streamed. Even when something is buffered you are always a slave to the interface, the connection, the host, and yes even your own PC. Guess what, the moment you have that hiccup you have lost or compromised data because just like the description I made about watching antennae there is nothing like LIVE. Of course there is also the inherent difficulties there too...again because of compression used.

    But yes enlighten me if I am wrong.

    I understand convenience, but there is still a compromise. Bluray has compromises to. Every DAC ever has issues of not being as good as others. But of course that also stands with any server as well because you got to hit speakers eventually.

    This is but the surface of my points and in summary a very small example of what I mean to prove a point.
  7. Deesky

    Deesky Forum Resident

    You're completely clueless!
  8. genesim

    genesim Forum Resident

    St. Louis
    And that is completely RUDE.

    You tell me where I am wrong and then we can go from there.

    Although I gotta admit that I am a bit skeptical of someone that says there is a failing CD epidemic.
  9. Grant

    Grant A Brady-Boomer Musical Free-Spirit

    There are several things you are forgetting here. First, there is such a thing as a private network that provides suitable bandwidth. Second, Bluetooth isn't a factor in every networking situation. Third, playback from hard drives have checksum to ensure data integrity. Data compression isn't an issue today like it was years ago.

    I guess I am special because it rarely happens to me.

    Fourth, my server is connected directly to my main computer, which is connected to my big stereo system. Again, if I stream data to my tablet or laptop, or any other device on my local network through wi-fi, I do not have glitches or any of those other issues you mention.

    You do strike me as being somewhat anti-computer.
    SandAndGlass and Deesky like this.
  10. Grant

    Grant A Brady-Boomer Musical Free-Spirit

    And, you sound like someone who has only half the information. Again, you must distinguish between CD and CD-R. They are two very different animals, and there are a lot of variables that factor into whether they fail or hold up to data integrity, including how they were written, and how they are stored. CDs are manufactured as lands and pits pressed into a substrate. CD-R involves a laser burning the pits into a dye which is photosensitive, and reacts to heat. That automatically makes them unstable compared to even a magnetic hard drive.
    SandAndGlass likes this.
  11. SamS

    SamS Forum Legend

    Live HD via OTA antenna beats Blu-ray? C'mom man. Blu-ray can provide for 2.5X the data rate and much better encoding algorithms than MPEG-2 via antenna. It's really not even close.

    And for your quality concern about streaming "quality" via LAN, you might want to read up on how TCP/IP works: Internet protocol suite - Wikipedia
    subzro likes this.
  12. genesim

    genesim Forum Resident

    St. Louis
    While compression is superior, I am also considering the source. You can have 2.5x the Big Mac or 1x of a fine live Julia Childs extravaganza.

    Nothing beats live I don't care if it is a 1000 foot tall super Imax.


    Did I say it was every situation? If you say a private network that is different, but when you take it on the road all my criticism applies. I also said these are examples.

    Over the cloud rarely?

    The perfect wifi. I need to look into this. Even the best providers get out of sync at times. Have you ever ran an error report on what you received?

    That is funny considering I built an upright with 6000+ games. I am anti-social network to a degree. Local storage is preferred. Quite a jump you got there. That would be like me saying you are anti-bluray because you seem to fight its obvious quality advantages.

    I can't imagine putting 200+ Terrabytes of even the most average bluray collection on a server. Just isn't efficient use of energy in my eyes. To each his own.

    While I may get about 50gb to 100gb per disc, I still do that in spindles for my collections. And that is archiving quality not ink CD-R's which were never ever part of my discussion, no need to specify....because I already did when I said manufactured "aluminum" "plastic" "Epoxy".
  13. genesim

    genesim Forum Resident

    St. Louis
    Right so from that statement you can figure out I was referring to a CD not a CDR which you erroneously claim that I didn't know what I was talking about or it couldn't possibly use ink.
  14. broshfab4

    broshfab4 Forum Resident

    Long Island, NY
    I'd trust my CD's and records over anything over a network. Hands down.
  15. genesim

    genesim Forum Resident

    St. Louis
    This is confusing. Originally it was stated by Grant that I didn't know what I was talking about because a CD-R uses ink and Grant said CD-R's have nothing to do with ink, now it just looks like Grant writing and telling me how CD's are manufactured?

    I hope at least some people see what happened. I am out. I don't like dishonesty.
  16. Jose Jones

    Jose Jones Outstanding Forum Member

    Detroit, Michigan
    Well, so what? I bought a car in 1987 that was advertised as being great and reliable and turned out to be neither....but life went on. I'm not griping about it still on internet message boards.
    SandAndGlass likes this.

    BILLONEEG Forum Resident

    New Jersey
    I have always favored "Owned physical media" because I know it's mine to enjoy at any time. There are other reasons too.:

    Vinyl - I love flipping through the vinyl like the old days to see what's been released (& released again). The experience of
    browsing through CD's always seemed so "portable". Yeah, the artwork may be duplicated on the front & back of the CD
    but being able to hold & look at that 12x12 piece of art & read the back is so much more satisfying. At the present time, I
    focus my vinyl buying on albums from my younger vinyl buying days. On the way there are exceptions. One exception is
    Lindsey Stirling. I will probably get all of her albums on vinyl as they come out.

    CD's - They still have their own value for recent music & music that was never or may never get a vinyl release. It's still a
    physical copy to call my own.

    DVD's & Blu-Rays - Like CD's, When I want to watch a movie, I like knowing I can get it off the shelf to watch it. I don't
    want to go to a streaming service to see if it's available. I don't want to find out it was taken off Netflix, Amazon, or Hulu
    two months ago! My movie viewing is not based on a schedule of availability. It's based on what I feel like watching at
    the moment!
    SonOfAlerik and EdgardV like this.
  18. fluffskul

    fluffskul Forum Resident

    albany, ny
    And classical. Classical on vinyl is about as relaxing as a traffic jam. Give me a CD any day of the week.
  19. jgkojak

    jgkojak Mull of Kansas

    Lawrence, KS
    I meant streaming services as an option - I usually just load abunch of files on a USB and go
  20. Gaslight

    Gaslight Cage Dweller

    Northeast USA
    Same situation, or just a microSD on a smartphone (same idea). OneDrive + Groove Music however allows for streaming off your data plan / the cloud, and the songs in question are the versions you choose.

    Lossy only at this time, I believe...except possibly WMA lossless.
  21. SamS

    SamS Forum Legend

    You know you can "own" digital movies as well right? They're yours forever (never seen one disappear, and they've been offered for 10+ years), and it's much easier/faster to get the movie going vs. pulling a disc "off the shelf". In fact, nothing makes me happier than taking some of my lesser-watched DVDs/BDs off the shelf and to the used-bookstore-pile, when I finally get it on iTunes. My house is not huge, so cramming a shelf or closet with 1000+ movies is not my idea of a good time. Sure, I still buy plenty of Blu-rays and 4K discs. But it's nice to hide those away on a top shelf somewhere and just have the access to quickly get them playing via streaming. This is especially true for TV series. Some of those packagings and boxes take up a lot of room. Better to just take up zero space on my Apple TV :)
  22. timind

    timind Bushy

    Westfield, IN USA
    Can't believe this only has 2 likes...made me lol.
    fluffskul likes this.
  23. timind

    timind Bushy

    Westfield, IN USA
    I'm in the same boat as the OP. I used Pandora when it first appeared, but it seemed too limited and repetitive. Recently I signed up for the Tidal trial but had a hard time deciding what to listen to. Although it did prompt me to make a few purchases.
  24. genesim

    genesim Forum Resident

    St. Louis
    Convenience vs quality. Can't see storing a great show like Lost or the Sopranos on several terabytes because of 12 or so inches of shelf space. But that is just me. I can't disagree with easy. Quality takes work sometimes. I am going to make that trudge across that living room as we speak to pick up a disc and put it in for the next 2 or so hours. I just hate to think of doing that again after the movie or TV shows 6 or so episodes are over.
  25. SamS

    SamS Forum Legend

    I don't think you follow. When you buy/use a digital code, it doesn't take up any space. It's stored in the cloud, and delivered via iTunes (or Amazon, Google, VUDU, etc).

    And I don't know what you mean about 'quality takes work sometimes'. If you mean the streaming quality is not as good as disc, I think you're in for a surprise . In fact, there is an increasing number of titles that are only in HD or 4K via a streaming service. So, if you're grabbing a disc from across the room, you're not enjoying the best it could look :)
    SandAndGlass likes this.

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