PAL/NTSC DVD player question

I've recently been eye-ing a few UK DVD's. My question is: How do these cheap multiregion DVD players that I see advertised do when it comes to PAL to NTSC conversion? How much does the picture suffer? What are the by-products of the conversion on an NTSC set? Any other issues I need to be aware of?

Any other (cheap) options?

thanks,
Dave

 

...depends if the Pal DVD is 0 region...my Pioneer 578Sa plays PAL 0 region DVD's flawlessly, but will not play multi's...not sure of other brands...you'll have to check around.

 

Thanks Michael. No re-interlacing or re-sizing artifacts that you can notice from the PAL to NTSC conversion? No color problems?

I'm not horribly picky. I just don't want it to look like complete crap...

 

Speaking of Pioneer, anyone tried a PAL/R0 on a 563A? Heard there's a real problem with the image....

 

Some of the ones from under the Jutan Electronics banner seem to do the job pretty well.

Up here north of the 49th parallel, they can be found under names like Electrohome and Citizen, (for all intents and purposes they seem to be mostly the same machine and street at any where between $100.00 and $150.00 depending on the retailer/brand name.) I have the Electrohome version and it does a pretty respectable job on PAL Region 2 discs. (eg, Phoenix Nights and the Cold Chisel concert dvd)

Back at Xmas time, Sears Canada was advertising a JVC that was multi-region and multi-format for around $150.00.

 

...looks fine to me on my Pioneer 578As, I recently tried a Australian Pal Region 0 DVD...it looked fine...I may not be as picky as you? I know the 578As will NOT play multi-region though.

 

You should be able to pickup a DVD player for less than $100 that you can convert to "all regions" with the help of the Net ... this thread may be helpful to you ...

 

In my experience the best PAL-to-NTSC conversion is done by players that use the Mediamatics chipset - this includes some Toshiba, JVC, Malata, and Jaton models. One big issue with PAL-to-NTSC conversion is maintaining the proper aspect ratio of 16:9 PAL material on an NTSC set. The other is a combing or shimmering effect noticeable during rapid on-screen movement when viewing discs in interlaced mode(and if you have a monitor and player that support progressive scan, this is not an issue). Many players use a number of video filters for film or video based material to counteract this effect. I use a Malata N996 with five different filters that worked perfectly when I was using a 4:3 SD set - now that I have an HD set I don't need them but it's nice to know they're there. The N996 also featured exact X- and Y-scaling to fine tune the aspect ratio of anamorphic PAL discs, but I've used it to correct the display on only one disc in 4 years. That particular model is discontinued, but there are other cheaper Malata models that do basically the same job. For an overview of different players, DVDBeaver has a list of region free and PAL converting players in their hardware reviews page. Here's links to their review of the Jaton PSD-7611 and the Cyberhome CH-DVD 300.

 

Thanks Christopher. While doing research the other day I did notice that improper anamorphic re-sizing was an issue with some of the players when going from PAL to NTSC. What about these players that claim to have more memory (i.e. 8/10/12mb) for PAL to NTSC conversion. Snakeoil? Or are the results actually better?

Namely, this machine:

http://www.regioncodefreedvd.com/jvcp1.html

 

David,

I have the JVC NP1SL and it works flawlessly. My player was hardware modified and it handles everything so far that I've thrown at it (and that's a lot). There are no problems with anamorphic playback, etc. I have a Toshiba 57" widescreen HDTV and I'm happy with the picture quality.

 

Thanks Todd. I've been eyeing that unit. It's priced a little steeper than I wanted to go for my needs - these companies that do these hardware modifications to stock units have quite a little business going, eh...... LOL! But I've read conflicting reports on the 39 dollar Cyberhomes (e.g. skipped frames on some Region 2 PALs, anamorphic issues, strobing). The Malata looks interesting too.

If I thought that I could do a simple remote control region "hack" on the Cyberhome, and there'd be zero issues, I'd probably buy one in a heartbeat!

Next question: How does the 4% speed increase on PAL discs translate during the NTSC conversion? Do the players digitally eliminate that completely or are there still (audible) issues?

 

I have a Malata 520 and a Pio 583 (modded for region-free play). The Pio has a much better picture than the Malata. The Pio has a picture quality a bit higher than its current street price would indicate, and does PAL very well with all of my DVDs from the UK, France, and Sweden. The UK and France are important sources for quality DVDs.

The mediamatics chip, however, has x/y scaling and even more important for me, a very fine zoom adjustment to fine tune over and underscan. I miss those features dearly, but rather have the nicer PQ of the Pio instead.

 

I haven't heard the case for a direct correlation between necessary converter capacity and monitor size before, but it's certainly not out of the question. But I've found that a player generally can either correctly convert a given anamorphic PAL disc or it can't; there doesn't seem to be much in between. As for the 4% speedup, it's a complicated issue to put it lightly(bearing in mind it's only an issue with a PAL transfer of film or a PAL conversion of an NTSC master. A PAL DVD of a UK TV show, say, will not have such issues). Some say that pitch correction applied to a PAL transfer causes artifacts like dropouts and pops(I've heard that a lot about the R2 PAL LOTR extended editions), but I haven't encountered it personally. And even pitch correction aside, the speed difference can be noticeable and even distracting when you're very familiar with the film in question. Me, I just stay away from PAL transfers of musicals. YMMV.

 

David,

I owned the Cyberhome DVD player for a few days when I first was looking for a multi-region player. It was really, really garbage. It dropped frames and was unstable. Simple scrolling credits were jumping every few seconds. I was looking for a cheap route and got what I paid for and eventually returned. Please avoid the Cyberhome and the time you will waste buying it, setting it up, removing it from your system, and then returning it.

 

As an Australian used to Region 4 PAL, I am intrigued by the whole PAL-to-NTSC playback thing. Here, most people have TVs that play NTSC or PAL, and most DVD players are multi-region, so we can play PLA or NTSC discs with no hassles (having said that, the aspect ratio issue has got me wondering - does the different pixel size of PAL vs NTSC mean that watching NTCS on our systems gives the wrong aspect? I've never noticed any problems... perhaps the multisystem TVs adjust for it).

What really concerns me is the 4% speedup on PAL discs. This is a major down side of live in the PAL world, and to me this issues negates any advantage PAL has over NTSC in terms of resolution and clarity. I have heard that there are players out there that can adjust PAL playback to correct the 4% speedup, but I've never heard of any available locally - is anyone aware of a DVD player that corrects the 4% PAL speedup?

As Christopher said, watching any music DVDs on PAL discs is just no good - who wants to hear their favourite music sped up by 4%? Pitch correction (as found on some discs) doesn't get rid of the speedup, it just corrects the pitch - yuck! (and they don't tell you when they've corrected the pitch on a PAL disc most times). I have a software DVD player on my computer (WinDVD) which has the "PAL Truspeed" feature and makes an adjustment for the 4% speedup - there must be a hardware player out there that does the same.

 

Am I missing something here? PAL speedup is only an issue with PAL to NTSC conversion. PAL runs at 25 fps, while NTSC is at 24 fps. Do the math.

 

It's film that is 24 frames per second. NTSC video is (approx.)30 fields per second and an NTSC transfer of a film source involves 3:2 pulldown - where film frames are repeated - so that the speed remains almost the same. Any PAL transfer of a film-based source will be 4% faster and a little over half a semitone higher in pitch - whatever the standard of monitor used to view it.

 

My bad--that's messed up. Luckily I'm not to sensitive to it.

 

I love my Phillips 642/37. It's Pal?NTSC and there is a very easy code you can enter from the remote to have it play disc from any region. Very easy.

http://www.videohelp.com/dvdhacks.php?select=Philips+DVP+642

Cost: 69.99 at Target or Walmart or Bestbuy. Cheaper online.

Plus it plays Divx files if you have any laying around on your computer. (alt.binaries.tv comes to mind)

 

Terrific site. Thanks for posting the link. The hack looks pretty easy.

 

Yeah, the one that worked for me was:

The method to do it is - Powerup the system.
Open the tray & keep it open.
Press 789 - then OK - then 0 on the remote (789 OK 0)
Close the tray. Power off the system.
Restart. Thats it, the player is region free.

I saw that Bestbuy had this player for 59.99 yesterday.

-Tom

 

Also did I mention the Cyberhome 1600 player? (sold as the Ilo DVR0005 at Walmart)

99.99 for a DVD Recorder and it plays Pal disc and all regions but it's a bit tweeked.

Here's my review from Videohelp:


I've tried the 1600 from Target and BestBuy AND I now have a iLo DVR005 from Wal-Mart with a March manufacture date and a ZU on the package and I can say a few things for sure:

1)None of the three units play DiVX/XvID

2)The coax input does not have Macro-vision detection. Using my "Devo:The Men Who Make the Music" video tape I am able to record from the coax input fine but when I try the composite output from my VCR into the composite input on the recorder I get a "Protected Content" warning.

3)Playing a non-region encoded Pal disc works fine.

4)Playing a Region 2 disc gives a "Wrong Region" error but you can start the disc by pressing a number (e.g., number 2) on the keypad. It will go to that chapter. Several buttons on the remote such as "Menu" will not work but "Title" does. Just choose a title that you know ends quickly and try to get back to the main DVD menu from there by navigating. back. It's kind of a pain but it does work.

5)The unit quickly forgets which ""Source" input you are using but it's pretty easy to switch back.

6)The DVDs it burns do not work in my Mac on my Pioneer DVD player but DVDShrink on the PC will re-burn them into useable discs.

7)I have recorded with DVD+R, DVD+RW and DVD-RW. All seem to work fine.

I think this unit is great for backup up Tivo recordings and old VHS tapes but I don't think the recording quality will be acceptable to videophiles.

Take this unit for what it is: a DIRT-cheap recorder and a useable (if inconvenient) multi-region player.

I think the Philips is better if you are going to be playing A LOT of region2-6 discs or Divx, but the Cyberhome is good for occasional non-region 1 discs and it records too.

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=3610576