Paul McCartney Archive Collection - Tug Of War & Pipes Of Peace coming! (Part Two)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by daveidmarx, Feb 16, 2015.

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  1. freddiebell

    freddiebell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wisconsin, USA
    You raise a good point that the issue of when -- even if -- McCartney went through a "dicey period," a creative lull, is very much in the eye of the beholder. Ask 20 informed fans about that and you might well get 23 different answers.

    One extreme: McCartney II was a self-indulgent collection of private tapes that should have been left at home; Tug of War was a return to relative normalcy, but Pipes of Peace was an ill-advised attempt at a concept album that tries too hard to copy its predecessor; Broad Street was trying to do too much and spreading himself too thin; "Spies Like Us" is goofy; and Press to Play tried too hard to be trendy and sounds like it. One hit. Five misses. A six or seven year period of mostly wandering barefoot in the desert.

    The other extreme: McCartney II was ahead of its time and a sign of a willingness to move in a different, more experimental direction for a new decade; Tug of War and George Martin grounded Paul again in his best talents and reestablished his ability to make good music with a sense of purpose; Pipes of Peace was a pleasant if somewhat less effective companion piece to the aforementioned; Broad Street offered an engaging soundtrack to a less-than-spectacular film, and with new material that, were it fleshed out as its own album with other original material from the time ("We Got Married," "I Love This House," etc.), might have been one of his most eclectic yet appealing solo albums; "Spies Like Us" shows that he still could rock with anyone when he put his mind to it; and Press to Play embraced a modern, contemporary sound that invited new fans into the fold for a new generation to come, but unfortunately failed to connect. Five hits. One miss. From there many people would opine that from 1987 onward, McCartney began his rise back to substance, in performance if not on the charts ... "Once Upon a Long Ago" is classic, irresistible McCartney, the Russian Album deserved the solid reviews it got, Flowers in the Dirt was musically diverse and appealing and, importantly, finally showed a lyrical depth of maturity long missing from his repertoire. And so on and so forth. In this best case scenario, McCartney didn´t have a "dicey period." He had a single swing-and-a-miss year: 1986.

    I´m guessing that the truth is somewhere in the middle.
     
  2. christian42

    christian42 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Lund, Sweden
    The only question now:
    Are you a poor sick misguided fool of a bastard, or are you a poor sick misguided bastard of a fool? :)
     
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  3. Paul H

    Paul H The fool on the hill

    Location:
    Nottingham, UK
    This is a fabulous post. It should be made a sticky whenever McCartney's career is discussed.

    I do think that his solo material is too, well, McCartney-ish to stand up to the rigours of Joe Public's scrutiny: he just doesn't engage with the type of music that is generally considered popular. No overblown ballads a la Pop Idol, no hyperbole, no over-emoting. He just plays it straight and "straight" is never cool (except when its hip to be square). So I'd accept that much of his 80s work is not likely to be well-liked by the "average" music fan, but I'd apply that perception to his whole solo career, just like I would to many other artists who make music in a similar way (Neil Finn being a classic example).

    But within the "bubble" of McCartney World, where we acknowledge his foibles and, in fact, love him for them, I think that your summary above is spot on. It shows very clearly and precisely that, even within the population of music lovers referred to as McCartney's fanbase, there can be a massive difference in perception of his work, not just at a micro level (I think Ebony and Ivory is awful, Bemagnus loves it) but also at a macro level (many people think McCartney lost it after Tug of War, I think his music got better once he'd left Wings).

    So picking the bones out of McCartney's career is always going to be difficult: one man's bare bone is going to be another's tasty rib. Personally, I side with Freddie's "other extreme". That aligns much more closely with my own view of McCartney's 80s.
     
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  4. christian42

    christian42 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Lund, Sweden
    Well put. My own personal feelings about Paul's 80s is rather a mélange of the two extremes. Cutting and pasting from freddiebell's post:

    McCartney II was a self-indulgent collection of private tapes that should have been left at home;

    Tug of War and George Martin grounded Paul again in his best talents and reestablished his ability to make good music with a sense of purpose
    Pipes of Peace was a pleasant if somewhat less effective companion piece to the aforementioned

    Broad Street was trying to do too much and spreading himself too thin;
    "Spies Like Us" is goofy;
    and Press to Play tried too hard to be trendy and sounds like it


    As far as the later 80s go, I can understand, and probably agree with, those who think it would have been a great flop if Paul had released the Ramone material at the time, but personally I love it. It's among the greatest pop music Paul has recorded.
     
  5. Paul H

    Paul H The fool on the hill

    Location:
    Nottingham, UK
    We don't actually have an entire album's worth of material from these sessions, do we? Off the top of my head (being at work) I can think of Loveliest Thing, Beautiful Night and Return To Pepperland. What else was there? The bootleg contained several songs from the same era (ie, mid 80s) that weren't from the Ramone sessions and a small handful of demos, but there never was an album of material from his work with Phil.
     
  6. Erchie

    Erchie Forum Resident

    Once Upon A Long Ago
    Back On My Feet
    Love Mix
    Love Come Tumbling Down
    Squid
    Atlantic Ocean

    Then there is PS Love Me Do from the same year, but not from Ramone sessions. That's 10 completed tracks that would be enough to fill an album.
     
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  7. Bemagnus

    Bemagnus Music is fun

    I agree with every word of both your posting and the one you replied to.
     
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  8. theMess

    theMess Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kent, UK
    I would say that I am somewhere in the middle.

    :laugh:
     
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  9. kevintee

    kevintee I’d rather be listening to McCartney

    Location:
    St. Louis, MO

    I Love This House also.
     
  10. Erchie

    Erchie Forum Resident

    I Love This House was recorded in 1984 and finished during Press To Play sessions. Lindiana and We Got Married are also from 1984.
     
  11. theMess

    theMess Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kent, UK
    He also had lovely ballads like Your School and Same Love recorded.
     
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  12. Erchie

    Erchie Forum Resident

    Same Love is from Flowers In The Dirt sessions as is Don't Break The Promise from the bootleg.

    Your School would qualify for the 1987 album, but Paul never finished that track, did he?
     
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  13. theMess

    theMess Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kent, UK
    How Same Love didn't make it onto FITD, I will never know.
     
  14. andy75

    andy75 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sweden
    It's a brilliant recording and a great song. Could have been on "Flaming Pie" instead of "Really Love You"! Why did I only get the "Beautiful Night" CD single with "Love Come Tumbling Down" as the only b-side? Oh well, maybe this will be included on a "Flaming Pie" reissue in the future. I sure hope so.
     
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  15. Rob Hughes

    Rob Hughes Forum Resident

    That is a lovely song; I would have been happy to have it on Flowers in the Dirt.

    And what a treasure trove those Flaming Pie singles were! At the time, it was hard to find studio bootlegs from McCartney dating from after the Back to the Egg era, so it was pretty wonderful to have these great CD5s show up with these beautiful tracks from the mid/late 1980s.
     
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  16. theMess

    theMess Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kent, UK
    I can imagine how exciting it must have been to get the Flaming Pie singles. So many of those B-sides should have made his studio albums IMO.
     
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  17. Paul H

    Paul H The fool on the hill

    Location:
    Nottingham, UK
    Squid doesn't come from the Ramone sessions, although it would have been available, having been recorded around the same time. It's not clear from the available information when the Ramone sessions were held. Some recording took place in New York in August 1986 (Beautiful Night and Loveliest Thing come from these sessions) but the remaining songs with a Ramone credit come from later sessions at Hog Hill Mill in March and April 1987 (P.S. Love Me Do was recorded in February 1987 for a completely separate project but was then "adopted" by McCartney so could be added to the pile quite legitimately). It's not known when Simple As That was recorded but it could easily have been included as well - there's no rule to say Macca had to use only Ramone-produced tracks on his new album.

    So the full list would be (in date order)
    Beautiful Night
    Loveliest Thing
    Squid (not a Ramone session)
    P.S. Love Me Do
    Back On My Feet
    Love Come Tumbling Down
    Once Upon A Long Ago
    Atlantic Ocean
    Love Mix

    While there are some things I really like here, Beautiful Night isn't quite right, Squid is fun but B side, P.S. Love Me Do is horrific, Once Upon A Long Ago is too Christmassy for a "normal" album track and Atlantic Ocean is also, well, B side material. That only really leaves five songs. Not enough methinks.
     
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  18. theMess

    theMess Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kent, UK
    It is also worth pointing out, like you said, that he did not only have to use Ramone produced songs on any album that he could have released. He also had songs like Your School, Kiss Me Now, Lindiana, Christian Bop, Return To Pepperland and Yvonne's The One available. It would certainly have been a strange and eclectic mix of songs.

    Here is a list of all of the known titles that Paul worked on in the 80's after 1984:

    1. Lindiana --1984
    2. On The Wings of A Nightingale --1984
    3. Your School --1984
    4. Kiss Me Now --1984
    5. Yvonne --1985
    6. Acoustic demo --1985
    7. All Rocked Out --1986
    8. Linda (Latin & Big Band version) --1986
    9. Politic's of Love --1986
    10. Spanish Hop --1986
    11. Latin Walk --1986
    12. Rhythm Walk --1986
    13. Up and At 'Em Girl --1986
    14. Funkittycat --1986
    15. Pick It Up --1987
    16. Big Day --1987
    17. Return To Pepperland --1987
    18. Twenty Fine Fingers -with Costello --1987
    19. Tommy's Coming Home -with Costello --1987
    20. Christian Bop --1987
    21. Peacocks --1987
    22. Indigo Moon --1988
    23. I Don't Want To Confess --1988
    24. Strange Sounds --1988
    25. D backing track --1988
    26. Mambo Me Baby --1988
    27. Great Entrance --1988
    28. So Long Blackie --1988
    29. Heraldic Fanfare --1988
    30. Current Affairs --1988
    31. Come Back --1988
    32. Weird Drama Oscillator --1988
    33. Riff Ma-Tick --1988
    34. Fuzz piece --1988
    35. Grandpa's Song --1989
    36. Church Mice --1989
    37. Get A Hold On Yourself Tonight --1989
    38. Inside --1989
    39. Act 1: Right --1989
    40. Act 2: Wrong --1989
    41. Act 3: Justice --1989
    42. Act 4: Punishment --1989
    43. Act 5: Payment --1989
    44. Act 6: Release --1989
    45. Daumier's Law (untitled song) �not booted� --1989
    46. Hot Soup/Jammin' Fools --1989
     
  19. RAJ717

    RAJ717 Forum Resident

    Here's my 2-CD set (unfortunately it ran a bit too long for 1 disc) which I titled 'Once Upon A Long Ago' of the "lost" tracks of the mid-80s leading up to Flowers In The Dirt:

    [​IMG]
     
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  20. AndyNicks

    AndyNicks Forum Resident

    Location:
    NJ
    While we're gathering these odds and ends from this era might as well throw 'In Liverpool' out there too. Bet you he plays it when he plays at the Echo in May.
     
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  21. freddiebell

    freddiebell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wisconsin, USA
    Thanks for the compliment, Paul H. I appreciate it. I tend to agree with your analysis of how the general public sees much of McCartney's solo work -- to the extent that they are aware at all. After so many years, the McCartney catalogue (here, at least, where I listen) on radio essentially has been boiled down to a handful of 1970s hits ("Live and Let Die," "Band In the Run," "Jet," "Junior's Farm," "Uncle Albert/Admiral Halsey," and "Let 'Em In" [and maybe "Silly Love Songs"]). From the 1980s I hear next to nothing anymore, save for the very occasional burst of "Coming Up" (live) and -- go figure -- "Spies Like Us." Forget about the 1990s and 2000s. For the average person who wasn't there in the 1970s, or who has forgotten, it is hard for them to become aware. It would take a lot of personal initiative, and most people aren't up for that -- understandably so. They have lots of other things to do, and hunting down obscure thirty and forty year old songs isn't high on their list.

    What makes the job harder is that, as you note, those people who were there and do remember often have the solidified mindset that much of McCartney's output was soft and sappy during the 1970s and 1980s, such that they won't give anything after that a chance. I've tried to have that discussion with some people. Some of the words I've heard them use to describe McCartney's music include "saccharine." And "effeminate." Even "wimpy." Several times I've pushed friends to listen to Flowers in the Dirt, as a "mature adult" album that is musically tasteful and lyrically something that most people of a certain age can relate to. The reaction I got usually was along the lines of "It sounds like a McCartney album" -- whatever that actually means. My take: people largely have made up their minds. Or they don't want to be challenged. Or, likely, it doesn't matter enough to them to care. That's fine. Everybody has freedom of choice. But it does have a certain ripple effect upon the hardcore fan base. It makes it harder to get concert tickets, and good seats, with so many people coming to the shows just to hear Beatles songs and hits otherwise -- anything else equates to snack stand or bathroom break time. And McCartney caters to that group to a large extent with the setlist, dropping in a few oddities for people like us but mostly playing it safe with the classics. We'd be the happiest people around if he'd do an intimate arena tour and just play unusual and different songs, a sort of "Best of the Rest Tour," forsaking the hits in favor of "Daytime Nighttime Suffering," or "Get On the Right Thing," or "Eat At Home," or "Take It Away," and so on and so forth. But it ain't gonna happen. So we'll just have to accept what we get, rejoice in each other's company, celebrate what is new and different in the Archive Collection releases, and understand that, sadly, time largely has passed McCartney by in the realm of public acceptance of his new music. Still, we've got a lot to choose from, given how much McCartney has done and -- thankfully -- how active and productive he still is. Their loss is our gain. That much, at least, we have in our favor.
     
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  22. freddiebell

    freddiebell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wisconsin, USA
    True story ... the day before yesterday I was playing a McCartney compilation somebody put up on YouTube and "Same Love" was on it. I hadn't listened to that song in maybe five to ten years, such that it was out of sight, out of mind. Really, I had forgotten it. But the moment I heard it I was struck by its beauty and immediately went to dig out my CD copy of it. I must have played the song 15 times yesterday, never becoming saturated. It is a classic example of the man's absolute gift for identifying a beautiful melody and hitting just the right notes, ones that suck you in, keep the song rattling around in your head all day long, and make you go back and play it again and again. Nobody else I've ever heard has so much ability to do that. And, as so often is the case, it's only a B-side. What an amazing wealth of talent and depth of songwriting ability to have such superior material as "leftovers." If only I were so capable ... adios, day job.
     
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  23. christian42

    christian42 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Lund, Sweden
    I think these were all available:
    I Love This House
    We Got Married
    Lindiana
    Your School
    Yvonne
    Loveliest Thing
    Beautiful Night
    PS Love Me Do
    Big Day
    Return To Pepperland
    Love Mix
    Love Come Tumbling Down
    Back On My Feet
    Once Upon A Long Ago
    Atlantic Ocean
    Twenty Fine Fingers
    Tommy's Coming Home
    Christian Bop
    Peacocks
    This One

    From the post by TheMess, I'd hardly call "Great Entrance", "Mambo Me Baby" and "So Long Blackie" available (nor anything from Daumier's Law). From what has been released on bootlegs, these are just short experiments in ambient music. The others are mainly unheard stuff to us regular punters, so it's hard to evaluate them.

    Of the above, I think like you that some are complete B-side fare - if not worse (Atlantic Ocean, Big Day, Peacocks, PS Love Me Do). That still leaves 15-16 tracks, and of those there are five or six that I find truly top shelf: OUALA, BOMF, ILTH, Lindiana, Loveliest Thing and LCTD - and that's not even including We Got Married and This One that would be greatly improved later on at the Flowers in the Dirt sessions. As I said, I would have loved the album.
     
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  24. Rob Hughes

    Rob Hughes Forum Resident

    Hmmm... I see Atlantic Ocean isn't getting the love it deserves around here. And I hesitate to post on things like this, knowing it's sort of an invitation for the less-enthused to air their complaints. But, here goes: Atlantic Ocean has a great, great dance groove--no small thing, I'd say! How many dance grooves out there have Paul's name on them? Not many! Deliverance, okay, but it's not clear to me how responsible Paul was for those dance mixes. As a dance track, I'd say it is far more successful than the No More Lonely Nights versions I've heard. And, while I have awesome respect for Silly Love Songs' godlike bass, that's really a roller-rink sort of disco track, not a sweaty nightclub pounder like Atlantic Ocean. You can complain about the lyrics. Whatever! That doesn't touch the essence of the song: groove, baby! It's not a song that asks you to sing along. It asks you to dance until you're covered in sweat and feeling transcendent.

    And, yes, I have a bunch of Yoko club mixes, too. So there! (though I'd take Atlantic Ocean over all of them...)
     
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  25. christian42

    christian42 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Lund, Sweden
    I think I've complained about McCartney's efforts in the dance/funk vein before (in this thread to boot), so I'll refrain from doing so again. Just 'cause I'm nice that way. :)
     
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