Paypal eCheque 'bounced' but I'd sent item already!

Discussion in 'Marketplace Discussions' started by imarcq, Jul 30, 2014.

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  1. imarcq

    imarcq Men are from Mars, I'm from Bromley... Thread Starter

    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    I'm feeling really stupid!

    I sold some CD box sets to an American buyer. Total cost inc shipping was $125.

    He pays via Paypal using an eCheque (eCheck). His feedback seemed good so I trustingly sent the item to him (via a tracked service) on the day his payment was due to clear. For those who don't know, an eCheque is not an instant payment and comes from the sellers bank, rather than a linked credit card. So it's a PITA....

    I get an email from Paypal yesterday telling me this:

    An eCheque payment from Xxxxxxxxx was declined by the sender's bank. We will automatically try to process this payment again in 3 business days. eCheques are not instant payments, and can take 3-5 days for the money to be deposited into your account, depending on the sender's bank. Please do not ship items until you receive payment.

    I've tried to contact the buyer who won't reply. I've written to both eBay and Paypal but await their response in 48 hours! My worry is that because I actually shipped the item before receiving cleared payment, and being told by eBay not to send until it clears, I wont get any seller protection, if that is worth the paper it's (not) written on?

    I know I did a dumb thing, and really shouldn't trust anybody online until I see the colour of their money.

    Any thoughts or advice?
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2014
  2. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Maybe I'm just an ignorant so and so, but I buy and sell on Ebay routinely, and have never even heard of an eCheque (eCheck). To my knowledge, when somebody pays via Paypal, either they have the $$$, or they don't, and if they don't, they can't pay via PayPal.

    :shrug:
     
  3. imarcq

    imarcq Men are from Mars, I'm from Bromley... Thread Starter

    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    It's something you will hardly EVER get Matt. It's basically for buyers who can't or choose not to link their credit card to their Paypal account. So there is no instant payment, as you have to wait for Paypal to take the money from the buyers bank account, assuming there is money in it to take. This is what Paypal say:

    https://www.paypal.com/au/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=echeck_popup&user_type=Seller&bank_country_code=

    [​IMG]

    What is an eCheque?

    eCheques are a type of non-instant bank payment and usually take 3-5 working days* to process, depending on both the sender's and recipient's respective banks. They are used when buyers have not linked a backup payment source (like a debit or credit card) to their PayPal accounts, or when a transaction is deemed potentially too risky to allow an instant payment.

    How does an eCheque work?
    The money is withdrawn from the buyer's bank within a period of time, which can vary from bank to bank. It is then processed by the buyer's bank, before being transferred and deposited into the seller's bank account. The entire process can take 3-5 working days, depending on the bank.*

    Can I cancel an eCheque?
    Yes. Click Cancel at the bottom of your transaction details page. If we have not begun processing the payment, we will cancel it outright. If we have already begun processing the payment, we'll refund the money into the buyer's PayPal account.

    * Note: Bank processing times vary according to the buyer's country.

    Australia3-5 business days
    Brazil1-3 business days
    Canada6-8 business days
    France8-10 business days
    Netherlands4-6 business days
    United Kingdom5-7 business days
    United States3-5 business days
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2014
    MLutthans likes this.
  4. imarcq

    imarcq Men are from Mars, I'm from Bromley... Thread Starter

    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    The buyer has contacted me and apologised for giving me a shock. He said he tried to cancel the eCheque but couldn't. He's going to his bank tomorrow to hopefully sort it out. I'm not holding my breath.....
     
    TLMusic likes this.
  5. TLMusic

    TLMusic Musician & record collector

    I hope you have a happy ending.
     
    imarcq likes this.
  6. imarcq

    imarcq Men are from Mars, I'm from Bromley... Thread Starter

    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Thanks. It looks hopeful. Taught me a lesson not to be so trusting. It's a shame really, but in these days of internet crime, you have to be more careful.
     
    TLMusic likes this.
  7. Wally Swift

    Wally Swift Yo-Yoing where I will...

    Location:
    Brooklyn New York
    I got one of those recently. It was a $600 refund. Took a week to clear and another few days for my CC bill to reflect the debit.
     
  8. imarcq

    imarcq Men are from Mars, I'm from Bromley... Thread Starter

    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Nasty things! Anything with an i or an e prefix is to be avoided!
     
  9. Wally Swift

    Wally Swift Yo-Yoing where I will...

    Location:
    Brooklyn New York
    Well, on the bright side the seller was very cooperative and gave me the refund voluntarily. Buying electronics online is risky business. This was an example of a honest fellow that did his very best to satisfy me including paying for return shipping twice [once for a failed repair and the second time for good]. It just wasn't meant to be but for a situation that went unexpectedly wrong [I understood the risks] I couldn't have asked for a better seller to deal with.

    Now to find a functioning RtR player!:help:
     
    imarcq likes this.
  10. imarcq

    imarcq Men are from Mars, I'm from Bromley... Thread Starter

    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Now Paypal tell me that the seller must contact them, and that the payment is pending until 12 August. What a joke!
    I'd advise anyone to cancel these eCheques if you get one as it's too much hassle if they go wrong. I wish you could specify on eBay not to accept these payments.
     
  11. imarcq

    imarcq Men are from Mars, I'm from Bromley... Thread Starter

    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Still pending :(

    The buyer says his bank had the funds available. But they still bounced the payment to Paypal for some reason. I called Paypal and they said they have tried again, but no response from the bank yet. I have to wait 4-5 days!

    Also Paypal told me that as I had already shipped the items before receiving payment I am not covered by Seller protection. That's not good to know. Fortunately the buyer seems reasonable, although his excuse was that I am in Australia, which doesn't really compute. If both Paypal and his Bank are both USA organisations, I'm not even in the equation until Paypal get the funds to send me.

    So I'm still $125 out of pocket, and his CD box sets are due to arrive any minute now. Even though I shipped them with a tracked service Paypal won't cover me. Maybe eBay have different rules. Anyway, I have to twiddle my thumbs for another week, while some faceless banker gets a return on my cash!

    Take home, don't accept these eCheques unless you like waiting and hassle. And definitely don't trust anyone and send the item before they pay, even if you are a decent trusting person. You won't be protected!
     
  12. Muzyck

    Muzyck Pardon my scruffy hospitality

    Location:
    Long Island
    Looks like a normal payment done through PayPal but the reason they use "eCheck" is because the buyer has no back up funding that eBay can put a hold on. It probably goes through The Fed Clearing House if it is a checking account and if the bank determines that there are insufficient funds when the settlement comes through, it becomes a return, not paid to the Clearing House and they return it as non sufficient funds to PayPal. Typically, most financial institutions will process the transaction through the Fed more than once, but after two or three attempts, it is returned to sender. That is why Paypal advises that there is a delay in clearing. For most transactions done through credit cards, an approval puts a hold on funds until the actual charge comes through to the bank holding the account. I don't know if PayPal puts a hold on the back up credit card in most cases because that would affect the "open to buy" funds on the credit card account for a period. It drops if the actual charge does not come through tied to the initial approval. It is normal for PayPal to request a credit source as a backup if you open your account only using a linked checking account for this reason.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2014
  13. imarcq

    imarcq Men are from Mars, I'm from Bromley... Thread Starter

    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    This guy said he has more than enough funds in his bank to cover his invoice. Infact he can see that the amount has been debited from his account. But it's not cleared. It seems that the bank obviously have other reasons whether he's got a balance or not.
     
  14. Muzyck

    Muzyck Pardon my scruffy hospitality

    Location:
    Long Island
    "Not cleared" is from your perspective. If he can see that it has cleared from his bank, that means that it is not his bank that is the problem. What leads you to think that the buyers bank "bounced" the payment (post #11)? It sounds like PayPal is the issue because they have the funds but won't credit your account. PayPal does say that there is a five day hold. When did the transaction occur? Was it more than five days ago? Many financial institutions in the U.S. will hold international cash type transactions for a period (noted in the disclosure you included) to prevent loss. PayPal is in effect a bank. Sad truth is they don't really care how fast you get your funds, they are more concerned about fraud and these type of transactions are a big loss for many banks.
     
  15. imarcq

    imarcq Men are from Mars, I'm from Bromley... Thread Starter

    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    I spoke to an American lady at Paypal today. She told me the problem is with his bank. Here's what she said, as I just sent a message to the buyer....

    Hi again Billy,

    I decided to phone Paypal (based in USA) to ask for an explanation, as my emails to them were not answered. This is what they said:

    The first payment was declined by your bank. This SHOWS on your account as a DEBIT while it is clearing. BUT your bank can choose to reject payment for an eCheck even if you HAVE funds available. It's their sole decision whether to pay Paypal or not. They chose not to. Paypal say they have attempted a second payment but as yet your bank has not responded to their request. They advise another 4-5 working days wait, which takes us to next Friday.

    If your bank rejects the payment again, Paypal advise that I cancel it, and start fresh with a new payment. They said that the problem sits squarely with your Bank and Paypal, both USA businesses. So the fact that I am in Australia is not really relevant at all for now, as I'm not even in the equation yet. They also advise that I am not covered by seller protection as I shipped the item before payment.

    So, perhaps I can suggest a few things. Maybe you could also call Paypal yourself, it's not too bad, I had about 15 mins wait. Then they can basically confirm what I've told you. You might also want to tell your bank what they've said. If by the end of next week it's still stuffed up, I will cancel this eCheque thing, and start over fresh with a new invoice. At the moment I'm not feeling very good about any of this.

    I do appreciate your concern too, and hope something will work soon. I'm not happy with the degree of customer service from either eBay or Paypal, or by the fact that I'm not covered by seller protection.

    I'll stay in touch to update you.

    Mark
     
  16. imarcq

    imarcq Men are from Mars, I'm from Bromley... Thread Starter

    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Yes it was last weekend. I am inclined to mistrust Paypal, but as I said they were resolute that the banker had not honoured the transaction, and were still waiting for a response to the second attempt. Meanwhile back at the ranch..........
     
  17. imarcq

    imarcq Men are from Mars, I'm from Bromley... Thread Starter

    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Well I'm not at fault. As I said I'm the innocent party here. It's was Paypal who wrote to ME telling me that HIS BANK declined to make the payment. I can't see how this is remotely my fault? I don't have any financial or credit issues at all. NONE. I just sold the guy some CDs and am awaiting payment a week later. How can this even remotely be MY fault?

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2014
  18. imarcq

    imarcq Men are from Mars, I'm from Bromley... Thread Starter

    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    FROM PAYAPL:

    An eCheque payment from Billy Xxx was declined by the sender's bank. We will automatically try to process this payment again in 3 business days. eCheques are not instant payments, and can take 3-5 days for the money to be deposited into your account, depending on the sender's bank. Please do not ship items until you receive payment.

    eCheck details:
    Amount:[​IMG]$125.69 AUD
    Transaction ID: xxxxxxxxxxxxx
    Sender:[​IMG]Billy Xxx
     
  19. Muzyck

    Muzyck Pardon my scruffy hospitality

    Location:
    Long Island
    Sorry, but the whole thing does not make sense. These sounds like notifications to the buyer, not you.

    The payment would not be "declined by your bank". It would be declined by the buyers bank. Banks don't "respond" to requests in the U.S. They go through an automated FED clearing house and are honored or declined by the buyers bank and settled with the FED. PayPal needs to settle with the FED for the funds and calculate any currency conversion charges to move the funds internationally.Most likely they have a settlement account with a bank in Australia that would pass the funds to your local bank.

    I wish you luck. Last time I dealt with PayPal because I couldn't complete a payment, the person I got on the phone was clueless.

    I'll leave it at that. Good luck.
     
  20. imarcq

    imarcq Men are from Mars, I'm from Bromley... Thread Starter

    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Yes. That is the message I sent to the buyer after spending almost half an hour on the phone to Paypal. I was just telling him what they told me ( that's my letter to him) I just copied it so you could see what they told me. Definitely NOT my fault. When I said "declined by your bank" that was MY WORDS TO HIM ABOUT HIS BANK. Sorry if you got confused, I thought I'd made that clear? Thanks anyway.
     
  21. Muzyck

    Muzyck Pardon my scruffy hospitality

    Location:
    Long Island
    Never said it was your fault. It was declined by the buyers bank.

    Bottom line is someone gave you a bad check and you honored it before your bank had the funds it. Your bank was PayPal and they indicated that you should not ship until you had the credit. If you did not heed that advice and it did not clear, who's fault is it. PayPal? This is no different than any transaction done via check. People have been passing bad checks since paper was invented.
     
  22. imarcq

    imarcq Men are from Mars, I'm from Bromley... Thread Starter

    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL. I HATE PAYPAL.

    OK I feel better now ;)
     
  23. imarcq

    imarcq Men are from Mars, I'm from Bromley... Thread Starter

    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Yes I know that I shouldn't have sent it. But hey I'm a stupid nice guy. You know the ones who always get ****ed over......:(
     
  24. imarcq

    imarcq Men are from Mars, I'm from Bromley... Thread Starter

    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    And eBay writes this. HOW CAN THEY BE SO STUPID? The buyer DOESNT WANT TO CANCEL. give me patience with these ****wits please!

    Hi Mark,

    Thanks for your response. I understand that you are worried because the buyer wants to cancel the transaction and the item has already been shipped.

    As of now, we can't take away PayPal as an option for the buyers to use as a payment method because this is the safest payment method that we have as of now for both buyers and sellers.

    What you can do since the item has already been shipped, you just need to ask the buyer to wait for the item to arrive and ask them to return it to you first before you can send them a cancel transaction request and process a refund.

    Enjoy the rest of the day and thank you for continuing to do business with us.

    Best regards,
    James C.

    eBay Customer Support
     
  25. Muzyck

    Muzyck Pardon my scruffy hospitality

    Location:
    Long Island
    PayPal is a bank and did what any bank would do. I really am at a loss why you would be mad at them to be honest.

    I do wish you luck. At this point you should work with eBay to let them know you had a non-paying bidder that committed fraud.
     
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