I wouldn't call this unfair at all. I had low expectations given the "new direction" I heard the band were moving in with the incorporation of the latin sounds and was figuring it was about time for a flop but it was better than I had expected but I wouldn't put it in the same sphere as "Behavior" or "Very". I'd say it's good cos it isn't that bad or as bad as I had feared.......if that makes any sense.
Despite the fact that Very was my favorite PSB album, I must confess that I didn't track down Bilingual until years after the fact. I graduated from college during this time and for a few years my musical obsessions took a back seat to real life. Plus, like others, I was fooled into thinking that this album was full of smooth Latin sounds, which didn't seem like a good fit for PSB. It turns out, of course, that the singles "Before" and "Se a Vida e" are not even representative of the sound of the rest of the album. So when I finally got it (the Further Listening version), I was blown away by how much I enjoyed it. I think the lyrics and production on this are top-notch. I'm still not a huge fan of the more Latin-tinged songs. A few observations: The opening salvo of 'Discoteca' and 'Single-Bilingual' is one of my favorite PSB moments ever. I love how the first segues into the second, and the combination of sequencers and She-Boom's live drums sounds incredible. The album version of 'Discoteca' might be one of the saddest songs they've ever written, despite being so up-tempo. There are a couple of different single mixes on the Further Listening disc, but neither of them can match the power of the album mix. Love it! I know lots of PSB fans don't like "Red Letter Day," but it's one of my favorite PSB singles. I like how Motiv8 slightly tweaked the rhythm for the single version. Sure, the lyrics may be a bit cliche and syrupy, but I like 'em. This is one of my favorite lines: "Like Christmas morning when you're a kid, admit you love me and you always did." Awww. "Metamorphosis" and "Electricity" aren't my favorite tracks (these are both examples of how the ambiguity in Neil's lyrics was jettisoned after he came out), but apparently Neil agrees. In the Further Listening liner notes he says that Bilingual is too long, and they considered re-sequencing it and eliminating "Metamorphosis" and "Electricity" for the reissue. "It Always Comes as a Surprise" is a wonderful ballad. It's also one of PSB's longest (non-remix) songs at over six minutes. The gypsy chanting on "To Step Aside" was an interesting choice. Using "ethnic" elements was a common production trick in those days in the wake of groups like Deep Forest and Enigma. But overall I love this song. "Up Against It"--this might be my favorite track on the album, although it's probably the most similar in sound to previous albums. It's amazing that Johnny Marr and PSB could come up with something this memorable on Bilingual and then not have anything as memorable on Release a few years later. The backing vocals at the end are almost too much, but they work for the song. Love the b-side "The Truck Driver and His Mate." The Further Listening liner notes suggest that this track was meant to emulate the Oasis sound. Ha! I also love "How I Learned to Hate Rock and Roll." What a great title. Glad "Somewhere" was a non-album single. It's a fun cover version but it doesn't really fit with the album, IMHO. Despite not getting the full album until years later, I did pick up this same CD single in a used shop in 96. I did not like the a-side at all, but I loved the b-side ("Truck Driver and His Mate"). I don't think I ever got the multimedia content to play on my computer, either.
You're not missing anything. It's been over 15 years since I last saw it, but from what I remember, it's just a fairly lo-res version of the "Before" video and some sort of interface that allows you to play the audio tracks from the computer.
Yep, that's it, kinda of a PIA slide out digi, but the b-sides made up for the packaging's defuncteviness
Now that you've described it, I think I did get this to play on my computer. I kind of remember that interface. It obviously didn't make much of an impression on me. :/
I find Bilingual is kind of a mixed bag, and something of a missed opportunity. I think the first two tracks, "Discoteca" and "Single/Bilingual" are just breathtaking, musically and lyrically. PSB had already demonstrated they were surprisingly adept working in a Latin milieu, but these two are both really inspired and far more extreme than "Domino Dancing". It's almost like they pumped out a disco version of Paul Simon's The Rhythm of the Saints, which is a pretty amazing achievement. And what wonderful, somewhat bleak character studies these two tracks are. "Single" also inspired maybe their best music video ever, with Neil as the military/industrial complex business executive and Chris as a cop. Unfortunately, these two inspired tracks are followed by a lot of less-inspired work. Substantially less-inspired. "Metamorphosis" is somewhat dated, standard mid-'90s dance fare, "Electricity" nods to hip-hop in a predictable '90s fashion (it might have fit in better on the subsequent Nightlife with a bit of reworking), and while "Se A Vida e" at least fits well with the Latin theme, it's also somewhat hokey and cliched - we'd gotten over the irony of hearing uptempo, poppy tracks from the band after Very. "It Always Comes As A Surprise" is pretty but a bit slow to develop, and I'm not sure the lengthy intro really adds anything. "A Red Letter Day" suffers from the same problems as "Vida", although I do love the way the chorus resolves and the "admit you love me and you always did" lyric - one of the best on the record and indeed in their catalog. "Up Against It" is a bit of throwback to Please and a more traditional PSB track, while "The Survivors" musically is much more rooted in their post-Very, hip-hop influenced sound - lyrically these two are more effective "uplifting" tracks I think than "Vida" or "Red", more realistically tinged with the problems of the day. "Before" is totally a product of the times and has come in for some criticism here, but I love it - mellow but with a solid, enjoyable groove and great falsetto vocals from Neil, which give it a somewhat timeless element. It would have fit in pretty well on Nightlife unchanged. "To Step Aside" is another successful track which pointed to the direction the band would head in on their next effort, while "Saturday Night Forever" plays like a trial run for Nightlife's superior, '70s disco referencing "New York City Boy". Overall, Bilingual is definitely a comedown after the smarter Behaviour and the catchier, more original Very. I will say I like the album more now than I did when I picked it up a few years back - familiarity has not it turns out bred contempt. On the whole I think it's stronger than the subsequent Nightlife, although that record has a couple of tunes stronger - if not as breathtakingly original - as anything on Bilingual. Sonically the album is compressed to hell just like its predecessor, but for some reason (probably the EQ, which tames the upper midrange) I find it a lot less grating than Very and in fact it's one of the better-sounding entries in their catalog.
Yawn. You've failed miserably. Not a single person has agreed with your strange hypothesis because its about as strong as a chocolate fireplace. Your whole argument is based on one band having MINOR success, resulting in some kind of ludicrous domino effect, in which everyone else in the genre started having success....only no one else actually had much success past a couple of top ten singles. Not even Tennant and Lowe would agree with this. Completely absurd, but you can have your fantasy lol.
No need to stay out of it. I'd love another opinion on this. Do you think the PSB success paved the way for other synth bands? My point is based on looking at the facts. The success of those other bands were pretty meager. Also the hits we are talking about were some of the best songs ever made in the genre. Are we seriously going to say that Enjoy The Silence could not have been a hit on the mainstream pop charts on its own accord?
I didn't think they came to the party soon enough. At most, they helped make synth-pop a more widely accepted genre. An example might be a certain individual I knew in college who heard "Being Boring" and really liked it but didn't know that bands like Depeche Mode, Erasure, OMD, Camouflage........etc. were also making music and some had been at it for a while. She was then turned onto a whole new array of artists to catch up with................oddly enough, she bought "Catching Up With Depeche Mode" with the specific goal of catching up with them. I'm not sure I'd call PSB as pioneers for the genre but maybe innovators in that they brought their own style and were somewhat original even in an era that saw a lot of bands using synths as a major instrument. I can't say I know of any artists who were influenced by them though, not to say they weren't influential but the synth bands I know were pretty much hitting their strides around the time PSB came onto the scene. "Enjoy the Silence" didn't need any help. They sort of nailed it with that one, a great song is a great song regardless of your preference of instrument. "Chocolate fireplace"
I agree with Morgan and Sunspot about the opening 1-2 salvo of Discoteca and Single. Wow! The percussion on those tracks is HUGE and sounds like nothing they have done before or since (haven't looked at the liner notes but it was some hired guns doing the drumming IIRC).
After the simply irresistible "Very" it seems a creative burn-out was just about inevitable. When "Alternative" appeared on the market, many of us teenagers had moved on to other things... Also, radio had separated a lot of listeners between rock and dance music. Pet Shop Boys were a relict from the past and only the amazingly loyal fanbase carried them along. The new single "Se A Vida E" sounded like a feeble and clumsy attempt to charm the fans, I never warmed up to it. I skipped this album and the next, because what I'd heard on the radio was mostly a hookless, meandering letdown or downright embarrassing blandness. Whenever the songs from 1996 onward appear on the PopArt DVD, most of the fun is gone. "Single Bilingual" is mildly amusing though.
Sorry for quoting just part of your comment, but I really disagree about "I Wouldn't Normally Do This Kind of Thing". I think the single mix is totally brilliant, and one of the best pieces of psychedelia since the Beatles gave it up in '67.
Some good points. I would say that Depeche Mode could well have influenced many people with that single all on its own. Also, I agree with your point about PSB overall sound. They are a synth band but have never really sounded like the others. None of the others were mixing Opera and Classical music with synthpop. One would have expected some very similar sounding bands to PSB had the influence been as strong as has been proffered in this thread. There were none. OMD sounded the same, Erasure sounded the same. Depeche Mode evolved a bit, but they are still distinct.
Bilingual is an album where I really like a lot of the songs, but it doesn't seem to flow right as a whole. Many people have tried to come up with better sequencing for it. I don't dislike any songs from this album at all, but it did seem a bit of a let down after Very. In the UK it did have three top-10 singles and another one that made the top-20, but is now looked back upon as kind of a failure. That is unfortunate, and there are quite a few really good songs on the album. A song I really love, "The Survivors" may be (after "Being Boring") their most poignant song.
I have Very and The Complete Singles Collection and I think that's about all the Pet Shop Boys I can handle until further notice.
Wow....all this time I've listened to PSB and I've never considered their combining opera and classical when it's as obvious as the lack of hair on my head. Sheesh, I think I need to buy some flash cards or something as I think my overall awareness has taken a dive. I honestly can't think of a band that pegged PSB as their influence. If OMD changed at all it was in the same manner many in their group did with bigger sounding and more accessible songs but I think that was a sign of the times for many bands. PSB carved out their niche and rode along like most of the others. For me, DM's biggest changes came when Alan Wilder really started to apply his talent with respect to arrangements for MFTM, Violator and SOFAD. Obviously his departure meant the band had to change since he was their Lindsey Buckingham. I will say I like PSB more recent albums more than the Bilingual, Nightlife era material. Their last two or three seem a large improvement over the previous few.
How curious. You weren't able to answer a single question I asked you in my last post on this subject, nor were you able to address a single fact I provided in that post. http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/pet-shop-boys-album-discussions.388880/page-26#post-11530572 And, once again, you completely misrepresent not only the argument, but the chart and sales reality - Erasure for example had a Platinum album in the US with The Innocents, while Depeche Mode had 4 of them post-PSB, if you include compilations. PSB logged a #1 single, a Platinum album and multiple Top-10 and Top-20 singles in the US. That's considerably better than "minor" success, especially for a genre that was dying in the US at the time PSB broke here with "West End Girls", and essentially dead by the time they were spinning hits like "It's A Sin", and "What Have I Done To Deserve This" into the US Top 10. Which gets back to the whole original speculation - that the success of the Boys likely kept a bit of label money going to promote similar, UK synth pop acts in the US who otherwise would have received even less - if any - promotion here. Because if there's one thing the labels have always done through the decades, it's chase after current success. I can't tell whether your misrepresentations are deliberate, or whether they're the result of some sort of issue you have with reading comprehension. You certainly seemed to have trouble making sense of various acts' chart histories, release dates and sales totals, in spite of the fact they're rather clearly chronicled on Wikipedia and elsewhere. Or else you just deliberately misrepresented them and hoped nobody would notice. In which case there is something brown in your "fireplace", but it's not chocolate.
If PSB influenced anyone I don't hear it as much as say Mode, there are a few bands that have quite a discography that as of today are doing Depeche Mode better than Depeche Mode (IMO) , I think PSB are in their own league, and that in itself is quite admirable
That Brandon Flowers bloke from The Killers did. At the PSB Brit Awards thing. Make sense of that if you will. Exactly. Synthpop evolved just like any other genre. Some became darker (industrial) and others were influenced by what was happening at the time. Frankly I didnt like a lot of the synthpop through the 90's. It became too formulaic and started to be indistinguishable from the Dance acts that were prominent in the charts...at least in the UK. After Behaviour, I was pretty uninterested in what they were producing. Go West and most of the stuff on Very did nothing for me. It was just basic Dance Pop. The B-Sides from that era sound ok though. Yes brought me back in and everything since then has been a return to what they did best IMHO.
Its not that I was not able, I just don't see the point. We're covering old ground. You offered a theory and failed to back it up with any concrete evidence. I've moved on. You should too.
They are unique. This line should tell you everything: "But in the back of my head I heard distant feet Che Guevara and Debussy to a disco beat" It did to me when I was 16.
Here's the Billboard article on the promotion strategy for "Bilingual". "Before" went to multiple formats, with no success. https://books.google.com/books?id=wgcEAAAAMBAJ&printsec=frontcover&lr=&rview=1#v=onepage&q&f=false
